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EM16A
23-02-09, 01:27 PM
Hi guys

I'm after a 600cc for the road and it'll only be used for weekend rides and the short trips on the weekdays. After something with bottom - mid range power.

I had an 06 R6 and found it to be lacking too much power down low and too much of an aggressive ride after mid range.

So deciding between the 05/06 636 and Honda 600RR 04/05.

What do you guys think?

Thanks

The_Giefster
23-02-09, 01:52 PM
Try an 07 CRB600RR, you can pick them up for 10-12k

benxxx
23-02-09, 02:26 PM
Yeah I would aim for an 07 CBR, you get the steering damper too, if you go the kawasaki make sure you get the red key or whatever it is, it's costly to replace if you need it in the future a mate looked at heaps and couldn't find many that had it.

Plus Honda > Kawasaki 8)

Garth Ivers
23-02-09, 03:29 PM
After something with bottom - mid range power.

I had an 06 R6 and found it to be lacking too much power down low and too much of an aggressive ride after mid range.


if you want down low power try a single or a vtwin. i4's are designed around needing lots of revs to make lots of power/torque up high. The other two designs are far more suited to low/medium power band torque/power.

SV650 is meant to be a winner in this class. typically youll find most naked bikes and not fairing bikes are 'torque' focused. the FZ6 for instance uses the same engine as an R6 but its tuned to make more torque sacrificing top end power.

EM16A
23-02-09, 03:40 PM
Oh right forgot to mention my budget is $10k and looking at a sports bike.

Were there major changes in the 07+ is that so?

benxxx
23-02-09, 03:41 PM
There is no way an SV650 will compare to the bikes he has mentioned.

If you think a bike is lazy down low, change the sprockets unless you need to hit 270+ kph you'll be ok. or just pick the correct gear in the first place.

benxxx
23-02-09, 03:43 PM
Oh right forgot to mention my budget is $10k and looking at a sports bike.

Were there major changes in the 07+ is that so?

Yeah the 07 CBR is a redesign, the 05/06 isn't bad at all, but the 07 is a big step ahead, it got great reviews too.

EM16A
23-02-09, 03:53 PM
i see, should i bother looking at a 636?

benxxx
23-02-09, 04:08 PM
They are still the most powerfull ZX6R, they are a good bike for sure, I reckon they already look dated though with the big headlights compared to the newer model 600cc one.

I have a mate with a stock 06 636 and he seems happy with it, takes pillions no worries too. it wouldn't be a bad purchase at all, I'm biased towards Honda though

Garth Ivers
23-02-09, 04:45 PM
There is no way an SV650 will compare to the bikes he has mentioned.

down low rpm rideability? i beg to differ. Up top? of course the suportsports are better... :rolleyes:

Garth Ivers
23-02-09, 04:46 PM
If you think a bike is lazy down low, change the sprockets unless you need to hit 270+ kph you'll be ok. or just pick the correct gear in the first place.

so why not change sprokets on the r6 and not bother getting a new bike at all?

benxxx
23-02-09, 04:55 PM
Obviously other 600cc supersports can still make better low end than the others

The whole "twins make so much more downlow" s such a stereotype too, it may have been the case once upon a time, but if you compare bikes of the same capacity an I4 is the way to go, my bike makes more torque than a VTR1000 SP1 and only 500rpm higher and the I4 makes alot more power too.

for a sports bike 4 cyclinder is the way.

an SV might be better if you stay under 3000rpm.... how exciting :lol:

brasher
23-02-09, 05:17 PM
Lol noobs.

Honda XR600.

Roadster
23-02-09, 05:54 PM
just get a higher capacity bike? no one said you need to redline it.

new thousands are as light as my 2001 600.

danielb
23-02-09, 06:29 PM
I have a friend that owned a VTR1000 SP1 , and he rode my gsxr600 the other night. He was surprised how tractable the engine was at low RPM. He also said that if he was to cruise around at low RPM, the gsxr handled it ALOT better as the VTR was pretty rough at lower rpm.

Surprised me as i was always told the v-twins are better down low.

I'd say if you want a sports bike for the road only, with bottom to mid range, go for an i4 litre bike, or maybe a daytona 675 if you can get one at that price.

I'm happy with my 600 though, having said that i haven't ridden a litre bike...

benxxx
23-02-09, 06:42 PM
having said that i haven't ridden a litre bike...

That's pretty easy to fix if you want to try one mate :)

Taz_
24-02-09, 08:09 AM
Daytona...

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 11:04 AM
you could always buy an MT-01






... no seriously! :lol:

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 11:05 AM
Lol noobs.

Honda XR600.

werd!

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 11:10 AM
The horsepower of an engine is an equation of the torque they produce multiplied by the revs. A twin, because it only has two heavy (relatively) pistons cannot rev as high as a four (there is a limit to how high you can rev an engine – heat and weight are the enemies), produces less power than a four of similar displacement when both are tuned for racing. The good news is that twins produce more torque and because they are, in the case of Ducati, producing pulses rather than the constant bang, bang, bang of a four, will enter and pull out of corners quickly and with greater stability, they also tend to be lighter (less cylinders and all that goes with them).

In racing conditions a 600cc inline four will normally compete with a 750cc twin, a 750cc four against a 1000cc twin, because the difference in power is significant (although this gap was probably too much, witness the ease with which Carl Fogarty won in WSB). Race series that are limited to a particular displacement, like MotoGP, give weight advantages to fewer cylinders.

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 11:11 AM
oh and http://motorcyclebloggers.com/tech-talk-articles/twins-versus-inline-fours/

Knight Rider
24-02-09, 11:19 AM
You know CBR600 is the way to go. This ones "perfect" for you.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn112/black-jap/270693.jpg

http://www.bikesales.com.au/as/search/sd.do?recIndex=11&makeID=37&modelID=654&page=0&y=9&selectedModelIndex=39&maxPrice=10000&state=2&selectedMakeIndex=39&previousResultPerPage=20&currentPage=1&x=62

danielb
24-02-09, 12:02 PM
Those links are a good read Garth, but it all relates to racing bikes, not putting around on public roads on them :P

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 01:48 PM
thats true
but the mantra is vtwin = more torque thus more torque = rideability

... right?

that said, just buy a 09 R1 ;) torque up the yingyang

benxxx
24-02-09, 01:50 PM
The horsepower of an engine is an equation of the torque they produce multiplied by the revs. A twin, because it only has two heavy (relatively) pistons cannot rev as high as a four (there is a limit to how high you can rev an engine – heat and weight are the enemies), produces less power than a four of similar displacement when both are tuned for racing. The good news is that twins produce more torque and because they are, in the case of Ducati, producing pulses rather than the constant bang, bang, bang of a four, will enter and pull out of corners quickly and with greater stability, they also tend to be lighter (less cylinders and all that goes with them).

In racing conditions a 600cc inline four will normally compete with a 750cc twin, a 750cc four against a 1000cc twin, because the difference in power is significant (although this gap was probably too much, witness the ease with which Carl Fogarty won in WSB). Race series that are limited to a particular displacement, like MotoGP, give weight advantages to fewer cylinders.

That is still a blanket statement that doesn't take certain things into account that affect engine characteristics, the materials used, the cam specs, the tuning, inlet and exhaust butterfly valves and other variants that alter the way the intake and exhaust work, the stroke, and on and on.

Moto GP may give wieght breaks to those who choose fewer cyclinders, but still no one does and it's cause they are shit :P

danielb
24-02-09, 01:52 PM
That's pretty easy to fix if you want to try one mate :)

Hahah thanks mate... we'll see!

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 01:54 PM
i not saying vtwins are better overall, im saying they are better for the original purpose of this thread.


After something with bottom - mid range power.

I wouldn't try and change your opinion regardless, seems your set in your ways of 'i4 is the best everything else is shit' philosophy anyway...

benxxx
24-02-09, 02:09 PM
I think singles and twin have their purposes, being a sports or powerful bike isn't one of them

Singles for dirt bikes, twins for big motards, I4 or V4 if you want to go fast :)

EM16A
24-02-09, 03:33 PM
Hehe my last bike was black and was the reason I got hit. THe old lady said she didn't see me!!!

Never riding black again.

In terms of the older R1's, anyone know the seating of the Yamahas?

I know with the 06 R6, it was very high and I had to tip toe. I'm almost 180cm.

Knight Rider
24-02-09, 03:37 PM
Hehe my last bike was black and was the reason I got hit. THe old lady said she didn't see me!!!

Never riding black again.

In terms of the older R1's, anyone know the seating of the Yamahas?

I know with the 06 R6, it was very high and I had to tip toe. I'm almost 180cm.

Your 180cm and you were on your toes?? You must have short legs then

benxxx
24-02-09, 03:54 PM
the 06 R6 was one of the highest seats though.

R1 is lower, Tommo isn't that tall and get get around on an R1 pretty easily

EM16A
24-02-09, 03:55 PM
165cm to be exact

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 03:57 PM
I think singles and twin have their purposes, being a sports or powerful bike isn't one of them

Singles for dirt bikes, twins for big motards, I4 or V4 if you want to go fast :)

so whats your opinion on 'torque sports'?

benxxx
24-02-09, 04:39 PM
Give me some examples

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 04:56 PM
http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/motor/index.htm?model_cat.asp?modelcatid=16

http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/yamaha-mt-01-2009/big_yamaha_mt01_2009_16.jpg

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 05:08 PM
and id consider the speed triple a TS
http://triumph.co.uk/australia/SpeedTriple_2009_5414.aspx

Knight Rider
24-02-09, 05:09 PM
You gotta love the seating position on that Yamaha

benxxx
24-02-09, 05:29 PM
That MT01 isn't anything I'd ever consider, it looks stupid, at least the VMAX goes fast while looking stupid.

Speed triples are awesome, short wheelbase and decent power = win, they look tough too.

Pak
24-02-09, 06:27 PM
Daytona 675? Fuckload of torque down low, still looks like your supersports and no italian pricetag although i hear maintenance is just as bad. The new 09 675 is supposed to be even better than the previous years .. :D

SfS
24-02-09, 06:27 PM
I think singles and twin have their purposes, being a sports or powerful bike isn't one of them

What about Ducati's?

benxxx
24-02-09, 06:52 PM
What about Ducati's?

Overpriced

In WSBK they wanted 1200cc or they would leave, the old 999 was costing to much due to the materials they needed to use to keep it at the performance level of the Jap 4 cylinders, and then it took Troy Bayliss to give it a world championship.

SfS
24-02-09, 07:12 PM
Over-priced yes and you CAN buy a bike half the price that will outperform two-fold, but my point was it's a twin that makes power? I just cost a hell of alot to do?

Garth Ivers
24-02-09, 07:22 PM
thats right

twins to make power means more cc's
thats just the way the v design works
then again, there are many types of twin designs... not to mention flat twin, parallel etc

benxxx
24-02-09, 07:45 PM
Over-priced yes and you CAN buy a bike half the price that will outperform two-fold, but my point was it's a twin that makes power? I just cost a hell of alot to do?

The 1198 is still 10 - 15 hp short of the jap 1000's

The 1098R is closer, but that is a $55k motorcycle.

Ducati make some good bikes no question... but they know how to charge too

DR-JEKL
24-02-09, 08:51 PM
Speed triples are awesome, short wheelbase and decent power = win, they look tough too.

Always loved the speed triples, and I am looking at offloading my GS500F shortly and was wondering whats the advantage of the extreme short wheelbase on the Speed Triple?

It does look a tad out of proportion..

kev.inc
24-02-09, 09:04 PM
675 for sure if you are looking for a sports bike with low down torque.

danielb
24-02-09, 09:28 PM
Short wheelbase = wheelies!

I recommend the original poster just test rides any bike he is remotely interested in, one will appeal to you the most, and you can buy that one :)

Roadster
25-02-09, 06:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0YydC1UoEE

mate at OP on the weekend.
the cam bike is a 675, behind him is a 600rr and r6.

the 675 has a few mods, inclusive of gearing mods.
the 600rr is for sale tho.

EM16A
25-02-09, 07:23 PM
Picked myself up an R1 today!!

Will join you guys at the next meet!

Its awesome and is so much better then the R6, seating, throttle, response, braking!

CONAN
25-02-09, 07:47 PM
Congrats! Which model??? oh and dont forget to upload pics!

Peaking Duck
25-02-09, 08:25 PM
my 2cents (and its not worth much)

when i had my 600RR 2003 (first gen) it was stressfull to ride on the road.
had to work the revs + gearbox to get it moving.

also had a 2005 1000RR and a 2001 R1 in the family at the same time.
and i tell ya, for a road bike, they are alot better.
*so much bottom end u can be lazy and cruise around in 6th. never get caught out in the wrong gear.
*tall first gear! on the 2005 1000RR, first gear got to 130kmph or so. i rode with a pillian once from city to fairfield using nothing but 1st and 2nd. now, that may sound rediculus to most people, but its because first gear is so usable. 1st gear is so smooth it feels like a car in 4th.

i know the newer gens are more torquey
but to the OP, when i hear u say torque, i say 1000cc.. (thats if u want a sports bike)

EM16A
25-02-09, 08:48 PM
Yeah buddy I couldn't agree more.

After riding an R1, the amount of torque it was just perfect for the road.

I didn't have to continuosly rev the bike to get it going.

The amount of power made it very cruisey to ride on the road. It handle just as well on the road and the power is there if needed.

I won't say its anymore dangerous then a 600 or 250. It all depends on the control of the throttle.

benxxx
25-02-09, 09:52 PM
What year model did you get ? congrats on the purchase, you wont be disappointed I'm sure :D

SfS
26-02-09, 05:22 PM
I hope it's the model with the undertail exhaust :D

Knight Rider
26-02-09, 05:25 PM
Congrats on your purchase mate. Pics will be nice

EM16A
26-02-09, 08:52 PM
Sfs your right! 04/05

Will post it up this weekend.

SfS
26-02-09, 09:03 PM
Wooooo best looking one mate CONGRATS!

jaeyon
07-04-09, 10:25 AM
636 ftw! im a kawa fan though, used to ride a zx6r 02 model. great bikes. that said i think thered be more support out there for the honda, but it looks too skinny imo. 636's are less common too