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Justin Fox
03-11-10, 04:05 PM
Someone was selling some JDM Subway Rings in the classifieds. I can't be 100% sure but I assume that they were not the real deal (as in original subway rings actually stolen off a Japanese train). That seems fairly obvious because he had a few of them to sell.

Long story short a few people screamed "rip off". What's worse, when I told them to drop it they began letting rip about JDMST being a forum with no integrity. That we're a forum full of people trying to half-ass copy Japanese styling.

ADM pretending to be JDM but failing quite hard style tuning forum was a new forum name suggested by one guy.

In the end of the day there's all types of people in our scene. We're small, but we're also big. There's going to be people who are more passionate about it than others. There's going to be people who love to jump on fads and trends and there's going to be people hating on them for doing so. My job is to somehow get everyone to live under the same roof without fighting and also to get the more educated inspiring the less educated (ie: picture threads, featured rides and prominent member build threads).

I thought it would generate decent discussion on here (it's been a while since we've had a good debate!). I've seen these subway rings getting around, learner stickers and various JDM memorabilia (just as I have seen salt lake drag bikes and cafe racers branded as Deus, hellaflush stickers on cars which have weak offset and JDM shopping lists on the sides of cars with no mods).

Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture? Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?

Discuss!

clutch-monkey
03-11-10, 04:15 PM
I've seen these subway rings getting around, learner stickers and various JDM memorabilia hellaflush stickers, JDM shopping lists

this always struck me as a bit of a wank, if your car is hellaflush/jdm etc you shouldn't need stickers to tell everybody
that said, it's mostly harmless and there's always the examples where it works.

pbk1776
03-11-10, 04:26 PM
Make this forum a car club :-)

munchhunch
03-11-10, 04:28 PM
IMO any fake products should not be sold at all, genuine tested products should only be sold on this forum, I hate having to sorry about something being a copy especially when it comes to spending large sums of money on Bride seats etc, where the copies look identical to the genuine.

The JDM hang rings, you do have a point but an item of such I think is ok as stealing from Japan to have a bit more JDM in your car is a bit too much I reckon.

JDM Obsession
03-11-10, 04:28 PM
From a business point of view, we have been amused by the various 'privateers' bringing in hang rings - and selling them for more than we do, all whilst not paying GST or shipping duties.

Ultimately though it isn't the fault of any particular business or seller for cultural abominations in the car scene, it is the fault of the consumer. Hang rings should be used on shakotan style ultra-low cars - that's it! We even say this on our website. Of course if people want to buy one for a car that doesn't meet the description, we aren't going to stop them.

What really amuses us though is when people buy imitation brand parts because they believe that there isn't a difference between a fake and the real thing. If this forum is anything to go by, the absolute abundance of knock off rims is very disturbing...and appears to be reflecting a trend in the bigger scene.

At the end of the day cars modified in poor taste only serve to illustrate the better examples out there. Trends come and go. A great build will always be timeless!

wilsmith
03-11-10, 04:35 PM
If people on here can't deal with things not always being genuine or the miss-use of 'JDM' trends, styles, fads.. etc, maybe they should make a new forum called jdmtuning.com.. Then maybe there would be a decent reason to get worked up about non genuine and miss-used things. This forum is called jdmSTYLEtuning for a reason i do believe.

Kikkoman
03-11-10, 04:39 PM
*waits for someone to chime in and post "HATERS R GONNA HATE.gif"*

The Panda
03-11-10, 04:40 PM
There is an awesome awesome thread in JDMST somewhere on the real economic issues created from people buying 'rip-off' items for their cars. Being a poor uni-student for the last few years, I can fully understand this, but that is because i don't see the majority of car modifiers as being highly rational, or engaging in some deep seeded introspective economic and moral debate when they buy a subway hang ring.

However, I will say, that all the people who rip on others for adopting styles to suit their own taste -> who the hell are you to judge? Last time I checked, a vast majority of cultures generally feature an amalgamation of people and taste. However, for some reason, all of the hellaflush, jdm styling and USDM have proven to be highly exclusive clubs for people to make themselves a part of. I can understand the annoyance of people rocking illest stickers on cars with terrible offset and modifications, but on the other hand, why would those who are in this elusive club (read: very few of us) not want others to fly their banners of approval? Since so much of the modifying game is impressing others, I would have assumed that this is just a compliment?

I suppose I am also missing alot of the 'deeper culture' of car styling such as hellaflush, and just like it because it looks good.

dave2221
03-11-10, 04:44 PM
Do you need a ferrai in the garage to have the poster on your wall? I dont think so.

Personally i think people should be able to put their mark on anything they want.

If its legit, the community will know, and show the appropriate respect that comes with doing a car (or anything) right. If its not legit, well why can't someone show some respect to those who are fortunate enough to be able to do it right.

Take the "hellaflush" sticker on the car with weak offset as an example.
i dont see why he cant represent a culture or ideal, without actually having the offset himself to go with it.

I for example am buying a Ford Telstar TX5....... yet i am a member of this forum, and rock JDM stickers on my toolbox.
Its not by choice i am driving the Ford, if i had my way i would be in a MX5 at a minimum, but buying an apartment has been taxing on the wallet, and my house comes before my hobbies. So i had to decide..... is it the car? or the House?

i think people just need to keep that in mind before they judge something or someone. because everyone has their own circumstances, reasoning and tastes behind what they do.

I think this is ESPECIALLY important when considering items on a car such as Sportmaxx wheels, or any other NON-JDM product as a cheap shit way out on this site.
I recently got a quote on some genuine SSR Mark II rims, 15x8 +10 for the MX5 (which i was that close to buying). But my financial situation had me take another think, and at $3250 for 4 wheels, is alot compared to the $800 you can get Sportmaxx for, this is a HUGE factor for people who are tight on money.

So what if someone cant afford the real thing...... if everyone could afford the good stuff, it wouldnt be good anymore would it?

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 04:48 PM
Guys we've covered fake/replica goods before, a billion times. You know, "friends don't let friends roll on Rotas!". I'm more keen on discussing the side effects of stealing bits of other cultures before truly understanding them.

A kid I sold a car to once called me afterwards to ask me what JMD meant..."OH! JDM you mean?". Everyone has to start somewhere right?

I'm just trying to put myself into the shoes of people who are beyond starting, who have been around for a while. The OG. Who might be upset, angry, confused, laughing, all of the above at what they're seeing the new kids do with elements of culture that they've developed.

Personally I like to juxtapose. I've never been in a war, or have much history with one, yet I have worn army boots and army style jackets because they made me feel tough and I thought they looked cool. Does it make me a culture killer? I'm not so sure.

wilsmith
03-11-10, 04:50 PM
Everyone has to start somewhere right?!

I agree (:

Whether it be a corolla or silvia, you have to start somewhere

D.K.C
03-11-10, 04:55 PM
I rock a wakaba leaf and genuine "march" badges on my micra even though my specific car was manufactured in england even.. But the way i see it is it's just an inside joke to the rest of you guys/girls out there that get it and sort of a pisstake on the whole thing at the same time... It's like that comic about the bloke with the JDM ashtray being the same as the USDM one, but smelling like Japanese cigarettes. It's all fun and games and i dont think this side of "tuning" should get people all that heated up really...

....The fake vs copy performance parts issue however is a completely different kettle of fish.

4shizz
03-11-10, 04:56 PM
Make this forum a car club :-)
This is good.
I like this idea.



JDM is now a cliche` thanks to the industry selling out and making everything 'JDM'
Whether it be Subway hang rings, amber corners made in china, having a billion strut braces or having replica recaros and sportmaxxes.

Everything is now JDM, as it has been explained to me by a few guys I met in the the city a few weeks back who drove 'JDM as fuck' Hyundai Excels, Dodge-Chrysler Neons and funniest of all.. a Great Wall ute.

JDM is now a simple, universal marketing brand slapped on everything as an understanding of 'if you buy this, you will be more Japanese Domestic Market'.
USDM, hella flush, illest (what ever illest actually is anyway aside from a sticker in some pretty font?) and the latest one which surprised me was being used on a pair of strut braces on ebay for an Evo 8 - DTM.

there's nothing that can change it unless you design some awesomely eye pleasing bumper sticker that thousands will buy saying 'sorry mr. honda boy, but jdm is actually made in japan not China, Taiwan or wherever you got your Vork Super Racing Speed Ravs wheels.

welcome to the decade of advertising and marketing cliches where having your bonnet painted gloss black to look like carbon fiber makes you a sick kent.


... It'll pass sometime onto the next thing, you can either watch it pass, jump on and go for a ride... or make some money by whoring the shit out of it.
im going for the first option... you can try being honest and legitimate but someone in the US know a guy in china who can make your X brace for 1/3 of the price.

p1kku
03-11-10, 04:57 PM
Seriously??????????

who the f**k cares.

dave2221
03-11-10, 04:57 PM
This forum is steering away from JDM style tuning, and i dont necessarily think its a bad thing, the VW adn USDM style have heaps of great concepts that i enjoy.

I think it should definatly have a strong base and ties with JDM style though.

as for the newbies, or people who are stealing idea's from cultures they may not fully understand, that is their prerogative. I think if they are making a genuine effort, then you just steer them in the right direction, just as i assume all of us were at one stage or another (i am assuming none of us were born with the knowledge or had it downloaded Matrix stylezzzzz)

At the end of the day, its their car, and their money.... so let them stick a Hellafulsh sticker above the shopping list of parts on his mums Hyundai....... i dont think its anyones place to say what he can and cant do....... because you dont own the culture.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 04:58 PM
Someone was selling some JDM Subway Rings in the classifieds. I can't be 100% sure but I assume that they were not the real deal (as in original subway rings actually stolen off a Japanese train). That seems fairly obvious because he had a few of them to sell.

Long story short a few people screamed "rip off". What's worse, when I told them to drop it they began letting rip about JDMST being a forum with no integrity. That we're a forum full of people trying to half-ass copy Japanese styling.

ADM pretending to be JDM but failing quite hard style tuning forum was a new forum name suggested by one guy.

In the end of the day there's all types of people in our scene. We're small, but we're also big. There's going to be people who are more passionate about it than others. There's going to be people who love to jump on fads and trends and there's going to be people hating on them for doing so. My job is to somehow get everyone to live under the same roof without fighting and also to get the more educated inspiring the less educated (ie: picture threads, featured rides and prominent member build threads).

I thought it would generate decent discussion on here (it's been a while since we've had a good debate!). I've seen these subway rings getting around, learner stickers and various JDM memorabilia (just as I have seen salt lake drag bikes and cafe racers branded as Deus, hellaflush stickers on cars which have weak offset and JDM shopping lists on the sides of cars with no mods).

Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture? Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?

Discuss!

This forum has been losing its integrity for quite some time. You've actually outlined it yourself with your vision of how lesser educated members would gather knowledge, through picture threads and featured members rides.

This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around. The majority of people here only care about wheel size/offset and what kind of front lip they're running. Nobody really seems interested in how to drive a car, or where to drive a car, but moreso where to take photos and what lenses they should be using. EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

I'm not by any means suggesting that you're a fake enthusiast if you're not at the track every weekend, or racing up some dark twisty road every night.

Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.

It's pretty sad to see it happen to a forum that has introduced me to a lot of the friends that I have now.

blackthunder
03-11-10, 04:59 PM
lets be honest here, JDM encompasses a lot of styles and not one person will know the complete story behind each style.
However, when people who simply cling onto a style because it's the current "in" style, that's when i lose respsect for those people.
they don't have the slightest idea where the style originates, what it represents, all that matter to them is when they rock up to a meet they get some attention because they're in fashion at the moment.

i tip my hat off to fonzzy, frpilot and other members who care and know the orgins of they're chosen style

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 05:01 PM
Rock Brocaine: Now there's a juicy response worth reading a few times!

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:09 PM
Rock Brocaine: Now there's a juicy response worth reading a few times!

So what is going to be done about it?

I used to get told off for not taking this forum seriously enough, and I guess having a 30 something page build thread with no progress is evidence of that.

As soon as you try to take it more seriously, you realise how pointless it is, because nobody seems to care about what you're doing to your car, all people care about is the hype.

Perfect example of a member who has come and gone, more than likely due to being frustrated with this dynamic of this forum is DAS KAMU.

Dude had a really nice 32 GTR, well thought out mods, heaps of progress in his build thread, and the guy just left.

I can go back to posting images of storm troopers in absolutely every thread if thats better.

Biggie
03-11-10, 05:09 PM
Hey if your building your car the way you want and doing it for you have a billion copy hang rings if thats what makes you happy

i deal with cars and car owners day in and day out, and its always the people who are doing it becuse thats how they like it who are the most intersting / have the best story to tell.

I liked the strom trooper pics Rock

mph
03-11-10, 05:10 PM
I joined on here after meeting a few guys at the track. I have a Clio, not even JDM. I've been on many forums and built up a few cars over the years and I do agree with Rock Brocaine. There are some great cars on this forum (Beau's car for example) but I find its mostly about offset and stickers. Then again, I like the pictures..

Mr Happ
03-11-10, 05:12 PM
This forum has been losing its integrity for quite some time. You've actually outlined it yourself with your vision of how lesser educated members would gather knowledge, through picture threads and featured members rides.

This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around. The majority of people here only care about wheel size/offset and what kind of front lip they're running. Nobody really seems interested in how to drive a car, or where to drive a car, but moreso where to take photos and what lenses they should be using. EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

I'm not by any means suggesting that you're a fake enthusiast if you're not at the track every weekend, or racing up some dark twisty road every night.

Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.

It's pretty sad to see it happen to a forum that has introduced me to a lot of the friends that I have now.

THIS.

nailed it son.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:16 PM
THIS.

nailed it son.

Fuckin high 5 bro.

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 05:19 PM
I agree there are some good points in it, and nothing bad in my opinion. I don't feel sad that JDMST isn't what it used to be. Fact is there are over 8000 unique members hitting this site and I only know a handful of you!


So what is going to be done about it?
Well talking about it is one. And weeding out good suggestions and perhaps trying to act on them.


Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.
I'm finding this is happening globally, not just in relation to cars. I hardly get any calls when it's my B'day these days. In fact I don't want them. I log into Facebook and there's a party in there. I'm not sure if going against this grain is, as you say, worth it. I've enjoyed watching JDMST grow organically. At times I've tried to take control. Sometimes it has worked, sometimes it's bitten me in the ass.

I'm in no hurry at all to shut this place down though. People are free to contribute, or leave as they please.

And Biggie, yeah that's largely where it's at for me too. Whatever makes people happy. I often catch myself out, laughing at someone's car only to realise I'm the dumb fuck for laughing at them. Who am I to laugh at them if they're happy?

As for more tuning, sharing of data as opposed to just styling and visual data. That's up to the individuals. I like to see what people do to their cars in relation to stripping and handling modifications. That's my kink, what I'm into so I go hunting for it and there's heaps of it on here, and at the meets as well as other web sites out there.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:20 PM
http://forum.jdmstyletuning.com/showthread.php?29327-Wheel-alignment-specs-and-theories

Here's a great example of this forum in its prime. It took almost a page before everyone realised that someone was trying to start a discussion on a forum. A discussion on an internet page containing software used to have discussions!??!?!!? Alien concept, right?

marvis
03-11-10, 05:21 PM
This forum has been losing its integrity for quite some time. You've actually outlined it yourself with your vision of how lesser educated members would gather knowledge, through picture threads and featured members rides.

This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around. The majority of people here only care about wheel size/offset and what kind of front lip they're running. Nobody really seems interested in how to drive a car, or where to drive a car, but moreso where to take photos and what lenses they should be using. EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

I'm not by any means suggesting that you're a fake enthusiast if you're not at the track every weekend, or racing up some dark twisty road every night.

Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.

It's pretty sad to see it happen to a forum that has introduced me to a lot of the friends that I have now.


Epic post.

Some good points in here.

The Panda
03-11-10, 05:23 PM
So what is going to be done about it?

I used to get told off for not taking this forum seriously enough, and I guess having a 30 something page build thread with no progress is evidence of that.

As soon as you try to take it more seriously, you realise how pointless it is, because nobody seems to care about what you're doing to your car, all people care about is the hype.

Perfect example of a member who has come and gone, more than likely due to being frustrated with this dynamic of this forum is DAS KAMU.

Dude had a really nice 32 GTR, well thought out mods, heaps of progress in his build thread, and the guy just left.

I can go back to posting images of storm troopers in absolutely every thread if thats better.

On this note - admittedly I put in my 2c (crap) every little while - but this happens way way way too often. And the worst thing is, that its always the technical guys who leave in the wake of a bunch of tools talking shit about their crap offset and not paying attention to the real detail and work that goes into a car. Im thinking 4agte, xero, nobbsy and more recently that dude with the vl's. No one appreciates the work that people put into putting up photos and taking the time to put up a reasonable response to someone's question.

I put a thread up on here about something I was trying to fix and a bunch of clowns told me to do a skid or some crap like that. On NS, twenty minutes later and I had detailed explanations and a couple of PM's.

Back on topic - If we are going to specifically talk about car culture, why not start with what car culture is to us? Because that is what is really at the heart of the argument.

What car culture is to me is meeting people, hanging out and friends places drinking beers and playing with cars. And then when that is all said and done, going for a quiet drive and having a ciggy looking over the water discussing. Or going round to someones place to help them out, with no expectation of favors returned. Its just an expansion on friendships present and future. All these 'cultures' dont mean shit to me, and to be quite frank, they mean shit to pretty much everyone on this forum.

My point - why the hell does everyone get offended when we take parts from other groups and culminate them with others to form something that is our own? Is there a real need to have to conform to any one part of modifying?

*bj*
03-11-10, 05:24 PM
I like JDMST for what it is. I'm a member of other (more technical based) forums but none of them have an appreciation for aesthetics like this place. I think the mx-5 picture thread is one of the greatest appearance threads anywhere on the internet.

Fast cars are awesome but JDM can be thought of as inherently 'poser-ish': shakotan, bosozoku, demon camber, VIP, drift... is any of it really done for any other reason than looking like a cool dude?

Not keen on the people with NFI who jump on dumb ass bandwagons though. All those stickers look tacky.

Meh.

clutch-monkey
03-11-10, 05:26 PM
This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around. The majority of people here only care about wheel size/offset and what kind of front lip they're running.
this, seems to be more emphasis on 'stance' and looks then actual functional driving
that said, it does seem to be a way for people to enjoy their cars without ripping up the backstreets so to speak, which seems to come uncomfortably close to the rationale behind sex spec imo.. we're no better, at this rate.


EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

never had that problem up here... ;)
the photography thing i agree with justin, it's just becoming more accesible to people.

Scandrew
03-11-10, 05:28 PM
It is called JDM 'Style' Tuning after all.

Consider it an automotive fashion forum first and foremost - everything extra is a bonus :D

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:30 PM
It is called JDM 'Style' Tuning after all.

Consider it an automotive fashion forum first and foremost - everything extra is a bonus :D

Pretty close to home and why I really dont like this place a lot of the time.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:35 PM
this, seems to be more emphasis on 'stance' and looks then actual functional driving
that said, it does seem to be a way for people to enjoy their cars without ripping up the backstreets so to speak, which seems to come uncomfortably close to the rationale behind sex spec imo.. we're no better, at this rate.

never had that problem up here... ;)
the photography thing i agree with justin, it's just becoming more accesible to people.

I've been to two QLD EOMM's, and both were pretty reasonable experiences. QLD in general seems to just be friendlier.

4shizz
03-11-10, 05:36 PM
Seriously??????????

who the f**k cares.

exactly my point,
who gives a shit, it's nothing new.

it's the same everywhere.
The only thing I have a problem with is false advertisement and the tools who will approach you and/or more commonly and consistently send send you hate mail and sledge you for owning a select type of car.

As for the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture?
not just the forum it's the entire web, because everyone and anyone can bullshit and become a photographer/lawyer/car enthusiast/mechanic.

I guess thats why myself and most other members here only really occupy the build diary's and the spam thread because there is quality content or quality entertainment...that's about all you can expect from the internet now.

4shizz
03-11-10, 05:39 PM
I've been to two QLD EOMM's, and both were pretty reasonable experiences. QLD in general seems to just be friendlier.

haha, yeah good first impression but it's the same as everywhere
friendly, but only if you sell stuff cheep, take good photos, have nice stickers or say 'hella' alot.

mph
03-11-10, 05:40 PM
Fashion, a general term for a currently popular style or practice.

This is the problem. Justin mentioned Deus. Half the guys riding these bikes have no idea where the style comes from, its a joke.
With all fashion, people move on. Lets see if JDM is a trend that will go soon. The real enthusiasts will still be here though.

AusScare
03-11-10, 05:41 PM
Seriously??????????

who the f**k cares.

This. It's best not to think about it too much. I've come on here with a Peugeot, but I like to think I fit in because I'm a car enthusiast.

DC2R
03-11-10, 05:46 PM
It may just be me. But I noticed a decline in technical information and quality information when Autosalon Magazine Died. Could just be me though.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 05:46 PM
This. It's best not to think about it too much. I've come on here with a Peugeot, but I like to think I fit in because I'm a car enthusiast.

Not trying to shoot you down, but at 146 posts, are you really an active member?

JBVIII
03-11-10, 05:46 PM
Hey if your building your car the way you want and doing it for you have a billion copy hang rings if thats what makes you happy

i deal with cars and car owners day in and day out, and its always the people who are doing it becuse thats how they like it who are the most intersting / have the best story to tell.

I liked the strom trooper pics Rock


Jog on kent...

lol

best guy
03-11-10, 05:47 PM
my opinion is that for a contemporary car enthusiast, forums are a necessary evil when it comes to getting good deals and working out what events are on where. As far as car culture and the scene is concerned, in the long term I don't think forums are inherently good for either. The internet and the liberation of both knowledge (ha) and opinion that it brings kind of takes the romance out of the traditional notion of just of hotting up your car and driving it like an idiot, because that's what you wanted to do. No matter what you do, everyone has already seen, and dissed, something else better from the comfort of their computer.

i liked it when magazines and word of mouth was what it was all about

JDM 20T
03-11-10, 05:48 PM
As a forum gets larger unfortunately that feeling of closeness/camaraderie becomes but a fleeting memory of yesteryear. What started as a group of enthusiast with a niche interest becomes a mainstream phenomenon so will the way the topics of the forum diverge from its original intentions due to rising popularity of other styles/hobbies eg. photography and wheel offset.

As the forum gets bigger people are bound to clash with their different interpretations of "JDM" which is inevitable because if it didn't then we would all be driving the same car with the same modifications all with the same color car.

But in saying this taking bits and pieces from different styles/culture can also be a good thing in which a new style is created from the fusion of these elements.

People are always going to argue the significance of fake parts vs genuine parts and so on but the way i see it is if it makes the enthusiast happy with the parts they choose for their cars then let them be as that is their pride and joy, what gives others the right to put them down just because they are using fake parts, its not like we all have $100,000 build budgets for cars. I know then the arguments about "saving for X amount of months and you could have gone genuine instead" but not everyone is willing to do this because they have commitments to other things like a family or a mortgage etc.

RB_LOVE
03-11-10, 05:48 PM
Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.


Spot on! but there's nothing wrong with that.

Most of the members on here like the aesthetics and beauty of cars over performance and driving experience.

But until people decide to wake up and face this truth, we'll see hate like this over and over again.

Seriously, if you need knowledge about how to make your car perform, you should be on a forum which is based around the type of car you have, SAU, NS, golfgti, twin cam, jzx, xr5t etc... if you want to know what camera settings/location would suit your car or what size wheels / suspension settings u need to run to make it look good, then it's not a bad place here.

AusScare
03-11-10, 05:52 PM
Not trying to shoot you down, but at 146 posts, are you really an active member?

I've never really seen post count as a good indication of involvement. I just read alot, I didn't make my first post until May this year.

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 05:55 PM
Consider it an automotive fashion forum first and foremost - everything extra is a bonus :D
I am a designer you know! HAHA! And yeah making JDMST's image was something I put a lot of time into. I got there pretty quickly with the help of some rad photographers who donated shots for our homepage and don't forget our original mission: It was to unite people who were into Japanese cars, as opposed to Nissan guys hating on Honda's etc.

I'm a car lover, not the one make of car (I like Holdens and Fords, not a Ford man or Holden man) not turbo vs. NA, front vs rear vs 4WD. I just like them all and hated that the scene was full of people into Japanese cars hating on other people into Japanese cars of another make (I thought it was stupid).

Where our meets once had the same make cars lining up together, it's now much more mixed up with cars of all makes and styles parked all over the place.

Sometimes when you reach a goal, you've got to move on to a new one and that could be why the old timers on JDMST feel a little frustrated?


I've been to two QLD EOMM's, and both were pretty reasonable experiences. QLD in general seems to just be friendlier.
I can't speak for QLD but being born here I know for a fact it gets worse every year. People get more aggressive, less considerate. It's just a nasty city to live in sometimes because of the people.


The real enthusiasts will still be here though.
That's obvious (and it's good that it is).

In the end of the day I don't and can't expect everyone to be as nuts about cars as I am, or bikes, or fish tanks or graphic design.

Even from my group of friends, people come and go, or sometimes go to the outer edge of the circle only to come back later on but hey I'm still here.

Julz01
03-11-10, 05:57 PM
I think the whole underlying issue is that alot of people in car communities have the need to show them selves as being superior to others in the community by either having a better car/more mods, being more scene (JDM, drift, bozo, stance , rice etc) , having more tech knowledge or just driving more. end of the day they will always hate on others that don't fit in to their specific niche that they see themselves in to show off this superiority

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 05:58 PM
Not trying to shoot you down, but at 146 posts, are you really an active member?

Don't you see what you did there? You did single him out and shoot him down. It's posts like this that stop people from becoming contributing members. :neutral:

clutch-monkey
03-11-10, 06:01 PM
I think the whole underlying issue is that alot of people in car communities have the need to show them selves as being superior to others in the community by either having a better car/more mods

this is easily avoidable for me, being in the porsche scene - i'm bottom of the ladder there lmao. :lol:
but it's true, no doubt when i eventually get my dc2r people will put shit on it haha

Julz01
03-11-10, 06:02 PM
prefect example of what im getting at in my post quoted by justin

Andy Wana
03-11-10, 06:02 PM
If only you guys know that the Japanese are trying to half-ass copy Australian styling
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs930.snc4/74385_10150298407090621_665455620_15600271_1854508 _n.jpg

If I may chime in, as a less technical but just as enthusiastic car enthusiast, I find JDMST members not bold enough.
It's always the same formula, the same cars, the same tuning/styling path, the same wheels, the same parts, the same bodykit, the same bandwagon.
We aren't copying the Japanese half heartedly, we are copying EACH OTHER half heartedly.

Only a handful dare to do something different and the rest are just lemmings complimenting each other's latest fad on their car/life (i.e. stance, offset, stickers, cameras, bicycles, shoes, tees).
For once, I'd like to see someone buy and mod something other than a Civic hatchback, a Skyline, an old econobox-bomb or a Silvia coupe.
Gotta keep the ego down too, just because someone has more money to blow on a car doesn't mean he/she's better than the rest of us.

My 2c worth

wilsmith
03-11-10, 06:07 PM
If I may chime in, as a less technical but just as enthusiastic car enthusiast, I find JDMST members not bold enough.
It's always the same formula, the same cars, the same tuning/styling path, the same wheels, the same parts, the same bodykit, the same bandwagon.
We aren't copying the Japanese half heartedly, we are copying EACH OTHER half heartedly.

Only a handful dare to do something different and the rest are just lemmings complimenting each other's latest fad on their car (i.e. stance, offset, stickers).
For once, I'd like to see someone buy and mod something other than a Civic hatchback, a Skyline, an old econobox-bomb or a Silvia coupe.
Gotta keep the ego down too, just because someone has more money to blow on a car doesn't mean he/she's better than the rest of us.

My 2c worth

Thats true, but most of the time i see new things come up, all they get is hate instead of positive feedback.

AusScare
03-11-10, 06:07 PM
For once, I'd like to see someone buy and mod something other than a Civic hatchback, a Skyline, an old econobox-bomb or a Silvia coupe.
Gotta keep the ego down too, just because someone has more money to blow on a car doesn't mean he/she's better than the rest of us.

Thus why I bought a Peugeot :lol:

Done all the free mods, now I just need money. Almost no one mods Peugeot's in Aus, I thought I'd give it a shot.

You'll find the VW scene is exactly the same, BBS RS on everything, but it works, I don't really have an issue with it, just as long as there are no lambo doors on that mk2 GTI.

Bronald McDonald
03-11-10, 06:10 PM
Refer to posts elsewhere JF.

RB_LOVE
03-11-10, 06:11 PM
Andy! you bold man! great post!

p1kku
03-11-10, 06:11 PM
I think the whole underlying issue is that alot of people in car communities have the need to show them selves as being superior to others in the community by either having a better car/more mods, being more scene (JDM, drift, bozo, stance , rice etc) , having more tech knowledge or just driving more. end of the day they will always hate on others that don't fit in to their specific niche that they see themselves in to show off this superiority

That pretty much summed up this thread/JDMST/car forums in general for me.

I just didnt know how to put it in words lol.

EGG80X
03-11-10, 06:13 PM
If only you guys know that the Japanese are trying to half-ass copy Australian styling
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs930.snc4/74385_10150298407090621_665455620_15600271_1854508 _n.jpg



lol Andy, that's cdm yo

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 06:14 PM
Don't you see what you did there? You did single him out and shoot him down. It's posts like this that stop people from becoming contributing members. :neutral:

If he joined in May 2008, is it really me who stopped him from contributing?

He said it himself in a direct response, that he is more of a reader, which is exactly what I am getting at. Maybe he doesnt want to post because he can't be bothered, maybe it's not a welcoming community, but either way, I think you're going to find more and more members who do have something valueable to contribute looking to do it somewhere else.

Justin Fox
03-11-10, 06:16 PM
My last brain fart for the day (I've got to run out to a VWGolf meet!):

Over the years I've dropped in and out of caring for JDMST.

It's easy not to care.

In the end of the day I think the best forums are ones where there are a few experienced people sharing data and everyone else is hungry to learn.

Experienced people tend to be busy people though, busy living and doing what they do best. Asking these people to spend time contributing to an internet forum is a ridiculously massive ask. Worse is when they do contribute only to get shot down by someone who doesn't know any better (attitudes, egos, it's all in the way).

I'm glad I've brought this up though. Lots to munch on and I'm both surprised and glad that I agree with mostly everything that's been said so far.

AusScare
03-11-10, 06:22 PM
If he joined in May 2008, is it really me who stopped him from contributing?

And who's to set the level of contribution that is expected? Is 3,000 posts in 4 years enough? I joined the Whirlpool forums 6 months before you joined JDMST and have almost 8,000 posts http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/user/108637

In other words, that's no indication of contribution. Some members attend all the meets and never post. Does it matter.

I never even knew I had an account on here until May this year, I must have only joined up in 2008 to read a thread or something.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 06:25 PM
And who's to set the level of contribution that is expected? Is 3,000 posts in 4 years enough? I joined the Whirlpool forums 6 months before you joined JDMST and have almost 8,000 posts http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/user/108637

In other words, that's no indication of contribution. Some members attend all the meets and never post. Does it matter.

I never even knew I had an account on here until May this year, I must have only joined up in 2008 to read a thread or something.

That's a fair point, I guess I was more thinking about contribution to the forum itself rather than meets and the community in general. Most of what I am trying to get at revolves around the forum itself as well as the scene in Sydney.

Sorry.

anth
03-11-10, 06:38 PM
I joined here because I liked the 'look & feel' of the forums, how well structured it was, and the cool content that people post up which was based on (but not limited to) Japanese cars and tuning. Those 3 things are still prevalent, but no doubt things around here have changed since then, and the popularity of 'JDM' and other offshoot subcultures (stance, shakotan, etc) have exploded. Change is bound to happen, whether it's good or bad is up to the individual's opinion.

I didn't join because I was a die-hard JDM fan. I'm not really obsessed with purist modifications of any genre, I like taking aspects from all scenes and working them into my own cars, but there is a limit to how effective that can be aesthetically. I think it's important to know when to stop modding, and when a certain modification is a bad choice.


Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture? Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?

It depends how it's executed. The hang-rings for example, they're meant to be dragging along the road, aren't they? When they're dangling in the air they look stupid, yet they sell like hotcakes and I reckon I could bet that 90% of people that put them on their car aren't dragging them around. Is that important? On the surface, it's not, but when you think about it, it probably is. It may seem trivial, but in the long run, it's things like this that blur the purpose of a product. That's just an example (maybe a bad one?) but the same goes for a lot of other mods that people do.


This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around.
This is quite true. I see so many threads on here where people are giving the complete wrong advice to other members. Sometimes I feel obliged to chime in if I know the answer, other times I just close the window since most of the time people don't want to listen unless you're telling them what they want to hear. Seeing pictures/readings posts of some of the active members of the Spam Thread working on cars is almost always a facepalm moment for me (not to offend anyone, at least they're giving it a go).

As popularity of the forum grows and the newer and/or younger members join up, some (not all) of them might just want not much more than a cool long-exposure photo of their car at a meet, or the latest 'must have' modification after they saw a cool picture on Speedhunters. It's just like when Fast & Furious came out, every 2nd car had SPOCOM crap all over it, Chinese companies were churning out shitty bodykits and neon lights. Now, JDM and stance is the place to be. When bandwagoners start outnumbering enthusiasts, the older and/or more knowledgeable members tend to post less and keep to themselves.

But, this happens with most car forums. They start small and intimate with a group of passionate members, then when they grow in popularity and attract a new kind of membership base, the older members will fall off. Or if they stay, they can sometimes hate on the new guy and keep reminiscing about the 'good old days'. But I think JDMST is better than that, because a lot of the senior members are still around to post cool content and give advice, maybe not as frequently though. Remember that JDMST is a big forum with lots of members, so it's never going to be the way YOU as an individual want it to be.

I guess my post was more observational and not really opinionated. For me, it's all about cars, plain and simple. I love them, and I appreciate all the different scenes and what they have to offer, and I think that makes for a good enthusiast. Not saying you have to love every kind of car, just try to understand what's behind it. What good does it do anyone if all you have to offer is a witty asshole comment?

Also, I think KNOWLEDGE is a huge factor. If you take the time to read about your passion and research things, you'll have a much better understanding and you'll be able to contribute more, whether you're into the mechanical side of things or just like wheels or styling aspects. Information is thrown at us, and it's too easy to just breeze over it and not let it sink in. Take the time to sit down and really read things properly, you might learn something!

Babalouie
03-11-10, 07:00 PM
Hmm...this is a hard thread to answer, because I'm not really sure what it's getting at.

As for my own story, I'm just plain lucky. Lucky to have jumped on the JDM bandwagon almost 20yrs ago, lucky to have been to Japan many times. I went to Japan almost 8yrs ago, fell in love with the JDM roadster tuning style, came home and built my own. Of course, today, many MX5s are built in exactly the same style as my old car. Since then, I've moved onto J-nostalgics. In a few years time, will we see more Hakos, RX3 and Celicas modded in a JDM-style? Absolutely. But does that mean that these guys are any less of an enthusiast than I am, just because they came after me? Does that mean that any person who buys a GV lip for their MX5 6yrs after I bought mine, is any less worthy a petrolhead?

Of course not.

I'm copying (ok I guess we can use the phrase "inspired by"...) what I see in Japan, and I come home and build a car in that style. If you like what you see and have the wherewithal to do the same, go right ahead, good for you. Why would I judge you, just because I had the good fortune to be older, richer and have a job that allows me to visit Japan all the time?

For those who make the accusation of copying Japan, let me ask you this: what are you wearing right now? Unless you're some kind of freak that wears bow ties and vests, I bet you're wearing clothes that are 99% the same as the person next to you. 'Bet you're also on Facebook like the other 700million ppl from around the world. 'Bet you listen to music that's popular.

It's your life, and your money. Build the car you want. If it's truly unique then bully for you. If it's inspired by something else, then welcome to the club. The thing I love about the car scene is that there's all levels of ppl and involvement. Nobody is born OG or elite, everyone starts somewhere. If you're new, then just ask...because I was new to it all once, and had to be schooled by others too.

wilch
03-11-10, 07:28 PM
I like this place and the way it's structured. I don't care for any of the politics. I take what information I can from here, and I like looking at the appearance galleries.

There's a lot mentioned in this thread about contributing knowledge to the forum. Giving back. I'm one that can't contribute much, but if I'm asked something, like how I took a particular photo, or what I did in post, I'll try and answer as best I can. Or if someone asks what turbo and injectors I'm running, I'll post that up too. I don't expect anything more from anyone else here.

Like someone else mentioned, if I want to know specific things about my car or any particular make of car I'll find a forum specifically catered for that. Nowadays I find myself just happy looking and reading about what other people are doing with a variety of different types of cars without having to trawl through crap and advertisements. This place allows me to do that.

I don't care if one person is using "copied" parts on their car, and another is going for an all-out-brand-name build, or if one person is attempting to copy a style they've seen elsewhere, and another is attempting to do something brand new. I like reading about all these things equally. The journey's always different and interesting, no matter what the end result.

brasher
03-11-10, 07:30 PM
There are 3 things I love in life.... cars, camera's and tits, JDMST satisfies 2/3 of those.

I read car forums to get me stoked on driving, I read Motorbike forums to get me stoked to go riding, I look at Portfolios to get photographic inspiration. Simple as that.

As a bonus, over the last decade or so I've been trolling the internet, I've met 100's of cool and unique people, many I call my close friends to this very day. All because of car forums.

Don't take life to seriously, coz haters gonna hate.

van
03-11-10, 07:49 PM
And who's to set the level of contribution that is expected? Is 3,000 posts in 4 years enough? I joined the Whirlpool forums 6 months before you joined JDMST and have almost 8,000 posts http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/user/108637

In other words, that's no indication of contribution. Some members attend all the meets and never post. Does it matter.

I never even knew I had an account on here until May this year, I must have only joined up in 2008 to read a thread or something.


That's a fair point, I guess I was more thinking about contribution to the forum itself rather than meets and the community in general. Most of what I am trying to get at revolves around the forum itself as well as the scene in Sydney.

Sorry.

This exchange right here is everything that a community needs. An opinion, an alternative opinion delivered considerately, and a measured and considered response given back.

Kudos to you both.

Sadly, these moments are the exception rather than the rule, and it's utterly impossible to police. The moderators and admins aren't paid, and they've only got so much passion to give when it's constantly being bashed by a thousand individuals who each think their own opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to the question of how the show should be run.

As Justin said, it's all too easy to not care. Me, him, Mike.V, we get dozens of PMs every day from people wanting something, complaining about something, demanding something. There's only so much of that we can take before we toss our hands up and go "you know what, fuck it, this is a lost cause."

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 07:53 PM
This exchange right here is everything that a community needs. An opinion, an alternative opinion delivered considerately, and a measured and considered response given back.

Kudos to you both.

Sadly, these moments are the exception rather than the rule, and it's utterly impossible to police. The moderators and admins aren't paid, and they've only got so much passion to give when it's constantly being bashed by a thousand individuals who each think their own opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to the question of how the show should be run.

As Justin said, it's all too easy to not care. Me, him, Mike.V, we get dozens of PMs every day from people wanting something, complaining about something, demanding something. There's only so much of that we can take before we toss our hands up and go "you know what, fuck it, this is a lost cause."

Fair point, but shouldn't moderators and administrators also be there to set the example to a degree?

With you guys all off organising meets on your invite only forum etc, keeping away from the new members here, it's rather easy to see why it's starting to lose it's integrity, right? Take away senior members to another forum, keep forum a secret, let kids run wild, oh look, the kids fucked it up.....

van
03-11-10, 08:11 PM
Absolutely, absolutely. That point has been raised before, and rightly so. But at the end of the day, we're an old group of friends that want to have our own playground. We're not going to simply not do that, and while I agree that it's no excuse to somewhat disappear from JDMST, if the others are anything like me then they've maybe found it difficult to do their best to make considered posts only to be confounded by a dozen thoughtless, or childish, or off-topic posts.

If that's an arrogant thing to say, it certainly wasn't my intent - I'm finding it difficult to properly elucidate my feelings without them coming out wrong (and that's all the opportunity anyone needs to attack - thanks for not doing that!)

Everyone has their private friendship groups. As I get older, those are proving to be more important to me than these larger ones full of new and younger faces. Perhaps I need to just hand in my badge and be on my way, I don't know. Something to think about.

Chemical_Man
03-11-10, 08:17 PM
My first post be brutal.

I recently got into the whole JDM scene after buying my first car. I am currently saving up money to make my car JDMish. I have been on JDMST as a non-member for around a month now and I enjoy reading threads and checking out pics from EOMM which gives me motivation to do up my car.

In reply to the post about JDMST becoming more about aesthetics than performance. I agree it is more about the JDM 'look'. But then again if you want a forum about performance you will always find a model specific forum in America where you will learn all you need about upgrading the performance of your car.

These days in Japan and Melbourne most guys are wearing skinny jeans, have longish hair they style for hours and try to act like heterosexuals. This is very 'in' at the moment and so it is no wonder people are more interested in the looks of their cars than performance. The days of manly men with muscles that go to gyms and have legs wider than 10cm are gone. The days when men actually drove cars.

Welcome to the world of looks and people who make their cars look nice rather than make then drive nice but that is JDM today. Toyota and Honda have puled out of F1 and aren't really even making any 'performance' cars anymore so in the future it will be all about looks and adding a chrome tip to the exhaust of your hybrid.

I like JDMST being a forum about the 'looks' of a car and everyones personal interpretation of JDM style tuning, with the occasional performance mod.

D4NM4C
03-11-10, 08:23 PM
These days in Japan and Melbourne most guys are wearing skinny jeans, have longish hair they style for hours and try to act like heterosexuals. This is very 'in' at the moment and so it is no wonder people are more interested in the looks of their cars than performance. The days of manly men with muscles that go to gyms and have legs wider than 10cm are gone. The days when men actually drove cars.
.

What?!

Matyi
03-11-10, 08:25 PM
As I get older, those are proving to be more important to me than these larger ones full of new and younger faces. Perhaps I need to just hand in my badge and be on my way, I don't know. Something to think about.

Maybe its as you get older, you start realising that quality > quantity. That's the case for me at least.

Rad
03-11-10, 08:27 PM
EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

I have to agree with this statement to a certain degree. I myself have said something about EOMM's in the past to this sentiment but was kind of brushed off. Whilst I have only managed to attend 2 or 3 so far, each time that I have - I've felt quite secluded and only managed to mingle with a few people, funnily enough - Nissan owners. Guess it's also a bit difficult with everyone walking around and no one near their cars..

Perhaps it is just my imagination, but in this community there seems to be a certain 'favouritism' relating to what make/model you drive. Have an MX5, S15, Honda, Skyline or anything popular for that matter? in with the cool kids. Anything else has little to no attention paid to it, I guess some people can't appreciate different things on a broader spectrum and that's fine too.

In saying this, I'll be making more of an effort in the near future to attend EOMM's when I get some free time.

clutch-monkey
03-11-10, 08:28 PM
These days in Japan and Melbourne most guys are wearing skinny jeans, have longish hair they style for hours and try to act like heterosexuals. This is very 'in' at the moment and so it is no wonder people are more interested in the looks of their cars than performance. The days of manly men with muscles that go to gyms and have legs wider than 10cm are gone. The days when men actually drove cars.
i'm not quite sure if what people wear has much of a correlation with how people drive their cars..but then you just described marvis, so idk. maybe you do have something there.

Nismodified
03-11-10, 08:33 PM
What?!

Form over function, is the main point of what chemical_man is trying to say.

JDMST used to be that little garage I could walk into and feel comfortable. Now it feels like a large carpark where youths congregate and loiter.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 08:34 PM
Absolutely, absolutely. That point has been raised before, and rightly so. But at the end of the day, we're an old group of friends that want to have our own playground. We're not going to simply not do that, and while I agree that it's no excuse to somewhat disappear from JDMST, if the others are anything like me then they've maybe found it difficult to do their best to make considered posts only to be confounded by a dozen thoughtless, or childish, or off-topic posts.

If that's an arrogant thing to say, it certainly wasn't my intent - I'm finding it difficult to properly elucidate my feelings without them coming out wrong (and that's all the opportunity anyone needs to attack - thanks for not doing that!)

Everyone has their private friendship groups. As I get older, those are proving to be more important to me than these larger ones full of new and younger faces. Perhaps I need to just hand in my badge and be on my way, I don't know. Something to think about.

I think there's a large difference between an old group of friends with their own playground, and an elitist and secretive community, and I think it's the latter of the two that J-Type falls into. You can argue it all you want, but your view from the inside is probably quite different. Let's face it, there's already an invite only section of this forum, was that not enough of a private playground?

Justin has always been against any elitist attitudes on this forum, and I find it quite hypocritical that the majority of the moderating team including Justin are members on that forum.

RILEY_J
03-11-10, 08:39 PM
i'm not quite sure if what people wear has much of a correlation with how people drive their cars..but then you just described marvis, so idk. maybe you do have something there.

qft

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 08:40 PM
Refer to posts elsewhere JF.

Guessing someone agrees with me....

pr1nce
03-11-10, 08:42 PM
maybe we should all make elitist private forums and share everything there?

lol.

pablos8
03-11-10, 08:43 PM
I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is what modifying/tuning your car means to you?
The fact of the matter is, as this forum grows there will be more clashes and even more people wanting things from others. I haven't made alot of posts on JDMST as I've only recently started coming back onto these forums but from what I see there are alot of people who simply don't appreciate the time or effort it takes to manage a forum like this, to pass on/share knowledge of cars, photography etc. When this type of knowledge is shared its also usually just taken for granted as well.
By no means am I someone whos knowledgeable or has the hottest car etc but if I know something I'm willing to share that information. I think with alot of the guys that have been around here for a long time, they're finding that all these newer people are just wanting things, asking questions, taking answers and not really contributing back into the community. These are probably the same guys that come to meets and just stand next to their car and try to look cool.

For me the whole idea of these kind of forums is for enthusiasts to come together and talk and relax and show/teach each other things that others may not have seen/experienced. When the quality of the posts decline so does the integrity of the forum. We see alot of the older guys wanting to give up as the newer generation seem to just want to 'take take take'. But the thing is, when or if the older people do leave/give up, who will be here to step into their shoes? Because I really doubt that the new generation appreciate the integrity of the forum to jump in and say 'hey, he looks like he needs some help' and genuinely try to help another. Well thats what I've seldom seen. To me it just seems like all they really care about is how their car looks, what other people think about their car, what girls think about car, how fast it can go in a straight line, hellaflush, illest and all that crap.

People should mod their car for themselves and I think thats whats missing with the new generation of people in this scene. They mod their cars to make themselves look cool and get mad compliments from the other new people, not really knowing where their mods came from or what they mean as a culture.

In the end, I've met some great people from many different forums, I'm just worried that JDMST might not be a place where you can just meet anyone off the forum at a meet and sit down, have a beer, go for a drive and talk about cars with.. And when that happens I think the forums lost its integrity.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 08:44 PM
maybe we should all make elitist private forums and share everything there?

lol.

Believe it or not, I have my own forum with over 60,000 posts and 5,000 threads encompassing fashion, cars, motorsport events, video games and music.

I am the only user.

danielb
03-11-10, 08:51 PM
Too much spam/shit to sift through on the forum. The quality content is still there, it's just harder to find with all the BS.

Nismodified
03-11-10, 08:54 PM
The view from any side of the fence is always different, and I agree with you on your points dude. Just as JDMST was a refuge long ago for the certain type of person in the car community, J-type is probably filling a similar role in a vast JDM car pool.

Just by learning how JDMST has expanded and diluted itself over the years, you can't blame that group for wanting to avoid the same trend, and remain undisclosed - at the risk of been viewed as elitist.

That aside, secrecy and 'in groups' really do segregate the larger community a bit, especially for longer serving members and doesn't inspire comraderie at all.

Paul.S
03-11-10, 08:58 PM
Definitely some decent posts here. Mr. Brocaine is spot on in each of his posts.

Theres just too many self-conscious people here caring about what everyone else thinks of them, going to all measures to fit in.
Nobody is caring about quality anymore, whether its parts, builds, posts, or even down to their ride quality. If its cool/makes them LOOK cool, they want it.

reaper
03-11-10, 09:26 PM
http://www.valleymartialarts.com/images/cobraKaiLarge.jpg

J
03-11-10, 09:32 PM
Definitely some decent posts here. Mr. Brocaine is spot on in each of his posts.

Theres just too many self-conscious people here caring about what everyone else thinks of them, going to all measures to fit in.
Nobody is caring about quality anymore, whether its parts, builds, posts, or even down to their ride quality. If its cool/makes them LOOK cool, they want it.



Too true.

The other thing that shits me is people with no experience giving out big advice, it's unfair for the person looking for the help, it's also unsafe. But that's probably just me seeing this all of the time.


There is people on here I really looked up to when building my car's, I did not usually get cars they liked, but they gave me more help than I could ever ask for. Marty is one person who always gave good insight and advice to people on this forum, as well as jays14 and dead32. Awesome advice, and the guys have tons of experience with all things mechanical.

When I joined this forum, I was 17, pretty un-educated on all things non FWD 4AGE, and very interested in all things JDM, it was the cleanest style i had seen, and backed up my obsession with watching drifting the first time I saw it as a 14 year old kid. (which happened to be at some little stand at an Autosalon lol..)

Now i feel as if most of the stuff i see on here is just churned out repetition, the 10,000 S chassis built threads, where one in a hundred interests me, and the rest are dull boring wastes of bandwidth. I think now that it's so hard to find something new and different on here, is why i can get bored of it...


Ah, just rambling on.. Can't get my views out properly.. Think i have become an old man.....

SfS
03-11-10, 09:41 PM
Sadly, these moments are the exception rather than the rule, and it's utterly impossible to police. The moderators and admins aren't paid, and they've only got so much passion to give when it's constantly being bashed by a thousand individuals who each think their own opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to the question of how the show should be run.

As Justin said, it's all too easy to not care. Me, him, Mike.V, we get dozens of PMs every day from people wanting something, complaining about something, demanding something. There's only so much of that we can take before we toss our hands up and go "you know what, fuck it, this is a lost cause."

Maybe then, and this is just a suggestion mind you. That mods/admin found suitable people that accessed the forum almost on a daily basis and that didn't think to highly of themselves (going through posts they've contributed?) That you could give them a minor mod position or such to sift on the crap in a particular sub forum eg. General discussion, Off-topic or the classifieds.

It may not work but it would be worth a shot.

As Brasher said though, this is the internet and to an extent some people may take things said or done far too seriously, or even be too harsh given its not an actual conversation face to face where you can see how the person your talking to is reacting. I've noticed a bit of high and mightyism on here. But in most cases people can deal with it others don't have the mental capacity too.

Personally it would be nice to see alot more technical stuff one here.

Jays14
03-11-10, 09:49 PM
Every body relax its the internet its not real...

Tazz
03-11-10, 10:03 PM
I could go on and on about how the car scene has deteriorated over the 8 or so years that i've been around the sydney scene but thats just the way it goes. Once you've been around it long enough you build up a close group of mates that isn't reliant upon forums as an outlet for keeping in touch.

As for the whole 'scene' side of things the JDM aspect was summed up perfectly in a dvd made a few years back called 'the pursuit of function' which I've watched countless times. It's based all around hondas and the JDM scene exploding in the US but what really makes it for me is seeing guys getting stoked about cars and thats really all that I care about now. If you haven't seen it check out the trailer listed below and try and track down a copy of it (looks like you can view the whole thing on youtube).

Sure enough some people see it as being cool to build a car up to be the best it could be but it's just as good in my eyes to have something which can put a smile on your face at the end of the day which may have next to no money spent on it, sure enough you may not be the fastest guy around the track or have something which drops jaws wherever you go but as long as you're happy with what you've got thats all that counts IMO.

-MP7pE1g8rQ&feature=related

The elitist attitude that comes from people on forums is what kills it IMO and it's generally the people who have the 'cooler' & 'hero' cars on the forum as they think that because they have gone and built something to a high standard that they can lay it down on all the other people who have 'inferior' cars in their eyes - but at the same time there is the flipside of the people with said cars that are more than happy to help out, a great example of this I'd say is Billy - 3AM. He's got a 'cool' car in my eyes that has been built to go apeshit on the track and has been modified in almost every aspect yet he seems to be a great help to anyone on there when it comes to working on cars, making vinyls etc.

Maybe I missed the whole point.. it's far too easy to get sidetracked

Jays14
03-11-10, 10:08 PM
Nah..

In all seriousness if you care to hard or not care enough about forums or other peoples cars or any thing really like that it makes you angry or hateful.
You have to find the happy medium, its hard to find that medium of caring enough to make it work but not caring to little that the don't work or caring to much that you get angry about it....

I just go with the flow... give advise when i see something posted i know about, give my opinion on stuff i like or don't like with out making it personal..

If someone likes my car it makes me happy if they hate it it don't bother me i built it for me... to many people build there cars to make others happy to many people care to much about stuff like offset and flushness (in saying that cars do look better with the right offset and im all for it). Just go with the flow is what im saying

Jays14
03-11-10, 10:10 PM
^ Hope that made sense?? im 1/2 cut atm...

Tazz
03-11-10, 10:15 PM
Well said Juzzo, completely agree on the whole happy medium thing.

llama_au
03-11-10, 10:16 PM
...
My point - why the hell does everyone get offended when we take parts from other groups and culminate them with others to form something that is our own? Is there a real need to have to conform to any one part of modifying?

This.

A lot of us guilty of jumping on board a bandwagon at some point, borrowing from it and diluting it and ending up with something that's not completely reminiscent of the style it was borrowed from. And that's what makes us individual. I personally love the diversity on this forum and that's what keeps me coming back.

anth
03-11-10, 10:17 PM
You have to find the happy medium, its hard to find that medium of caring enough to make it work but not caring to little that the don't work or caring to much that you get angry about it....

Well said! Well actually it's not well said but I totally agree with what you're trying to say :lol:

Intense
03-11-10, 10:28 PM
The main reason I signed up for JDMST was because there were some really high quality builds (babs car and laurence for example) where there's just great detail and it's very rewarding to read through their build threads and actually get something back out of it. Due to financial reasons I've taken a bit of a back seat in regards to my involvement in the car scene but it's given me a new perspective on the whole thing.

I really don't like the way the scene is travelling. It used to be about performance, people into cars becuase they enjoyed the pleasure of driving something near it's physical limit, whether it be drag, circuit, time trial, rally, whatever. Performance was all that used to matter and the show scene was much smaller than what we have on our hands now. Dig through some fast fours and rotaries from 2000 and before and you'll see exactly what I mean.

In the last 10 years though there's been a huge shift in trends, cars have become fashion accessories to many people, where the look of a car is far more important than it's function. Far too often I'll see a cool car on the net and show someone only to have "fail offset", "crap fitment", "hella sunk" as the reply. People write cars off on face value alone now, where a car isn't even worth investigating unless it ticks the offset box visually.

This forums been affected in the same manner, it's all show and not much go. I've tried a number of times to make it to some of the first Melb meets but due to poor organisation it never went ahead, and from then on all that I've seen is basically a photoshoot at each "meet". No cruises, no hills runs, no track day invovlement, nothing interesting really.

Anyway I'm on the verge of making a big comeback and contributing something back into the scene with a new website I'm developing. Untill then I'll leave everyone with a nice little quote that really struck me from a teds talk youtube video I recently saw.

"people being persuaded to spend money we don't have, on things we don't need, to create impressions that won't last, on people we don't care about"

Jays14
03-11-10, 10:32 PM
Well said! Well actually it's not well said but I totally agree with what you're trying to say :lol:
Yes i've never been known as a master of the english language......

Nismodified
03-11-10, 10:35 PM
Yes i've never been known as a master of the english language......

It's ok Jus, it's your pretty face that keeps us coming back for more :P

ido09s
03-11-10, 10:35 PM
I havent read this whole thread and i am not about to but I have to admit i am over the whole idea of people putting names on things we were doing years ago and claiming they have pioneered it and own it. I mean seriously.... do you need to name something to make yourself feel good lol

I had a mate who was drifting cars 15 years ago so i think Tsuchiya should maybe give up the drift king name and let John have it instead lol (maybe not quite hehe) John did shit in his auto Kingswood that would probably put Beau Yates to shame and he drives a perfectly set up drift car :D

llama_au
03-11-10, 10:36 PM
I think there's a large difference between an old group of friends with their own playground, and an elitist and secretive community, and I think it's the latter of the two that J-Type falls into. You can argue it all you want, but your view from the inside is probably quite different. Let's face it, there's already an invite only section of this forum, was that not enough of a private playground?

Justin has always been against any elitist attitudes on this forum, and I find it quite hypocritical that the majority of the moderating team including Justin are members on that forum.

I tend to agree with you here. Or at least, if you've got your own private forum don't advertise it. It's like "look, here's this awesome car. I'll tell you it's name but you can't ever see it." It's rude.

pbk1776
03-11-10, 10:41 PM
Thanks for sharing that trailer

for me these forums or clubs is a way to learn how to tune and gather info I need both positive and negative

Anywhere you go there will be haters and gamers

just don't mix too much drama and you will be a happy chap

ido09s
03-11-10, 10:44 PM
To me it just seems like all they really care about is how their car looks, what other people think about their car, what girls think about car, how fast it can go in a straight line, hellaflush, illest and all that crap.

This is unfortunately the way the car scene is heading in my eyes. People dont build cars like they use to and it appears that the rougher the car apparently the better it is. The way it drives has nothing to do with how its built as long as it 'looks' cool and gets lots of likes on Facebook lol

Its a shame :(

xclusive
03-11-10, 10:45 PM
However, I will say, that all the people who rip on others for adopting styles to suit their own taste -> who the hell are you to judge? Last time I checked, a vast majority of cultures generally feature an amalgamation of people and taste. However, for some reason, all of the hellaflush, jdm styling and USDM have proven to be highly exclusive clubs for people to make themselves a part of. .

i agree on panda, who cares what people think, its your car and your own taste. mod it to how you would like it to be because its your own interpretation of what jdm is, theres no point modding your car to jdm expectations to fit in , at the end of the day if your happy about your car that all that matter




In the end of the day I don't and can't expect everyone to be as nuts about cars as I am, or bikes, or fish tanks or graphic design.



*hi5* lol love fishes and im learn graphic design atm (Y)

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 10:50 PM
I tend to agree with you here. Or at least, if you've got your own private forum don't advertise it. It's like "look, here's this awesome car. I'll tell you it's name but you can't ever see it." It's rude.

It's not so much about it being advertised.

What has more or less happened is that the moderators and administrators of this forum have brought themselves undone by, contradicting what they wanted from a forum, created an elitist and secretive group, inviting not just their old friends, but anyone they thought was "big in the scene" or would fit in. They moved the focus away from this forum and organised their meets, shared their tech info, build threads, whatever on their new forums, and here we are now where one of them has suddenly realised that this forum is missing something it used to have.

BOOM

http://newsliteimgs.s3.amazonaws.com/091119_stormtrooper1.jpg

reaper
03-11-10, 10:57 PM
http://whatthecrap.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/stormtroopers-in-the-pool.jpg

danielb
03-11-10, 11:02 PM
I also think policing (at least in NSW?) changes have killed a lot of the scene, with such harsh repercussions for power mods these days its hard to justify wasting money, just to get reamed.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 11:04 PM
I also think policing (at least in NSW?) changes have killed a lot of the scene, with such harsh repercussions for power mods these days its hard to justify wasting money, just to get reamed.

The only thing to have really changed is the level of media exposure it's all recieved.

Cars have been subject to EPA inspections as long as I can remember, and it was the same rules that always applied.

ido09s
03-11-10, 11:05 PM
Do you really think thats the case Daniel because honestly i think its quite the opposite. Hellaflush and poke and offsets have made people have a total disregard for the law with regard to tyre and wheel fitment and ride height. Power mods are quite easy to make legal if you use your head and think about things for a little while.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 11:07 PM
Do you really think thats the case Daniel because honestly i think its quite the opposite. Hellaflush and poke and offsets have made people have a total disregard for the law with regard to tyre and wheel fitment and ride height. Power mods are quite easy to make legal if you use your head and think about things for a little while.

Spot on Brad.

wernz
03-11-10, 11:11 PM
I think your pretty spot on Rock Brocaine...
and i totally agree with Jays14's point of view.
IMO there is just to much ego in everything!

llama_au
03-11-10, 11:11 PM
It's not so much about it being advertised.

What has more or less happened is that the moderators and administrators of this forum have brought themselves undone by, contradicting what they wanted from a forum, created an elitist and secretive group, inviting not just their old friends, but anyone they thought was "big in the scene" or would fit in. They moved the focus away from this forum and organised their meets, shared their tech info, build threads, whatever on their new forums, and here we are now where one of them has suddenly realised that this forum is missing something it used to have.

BOOM...


I get that. I guess my personal issue with it is that it is mentioned, and when you ask about it, no you can't join. It shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place.

The elitist vibe that's been mentioned previously, that's what really disappoints me.

anth
03-11-10, 11:13 PM
I also think policing (at least in NSW?) changes have killed a lot of the scene, with such harsh repercussions for power mods these days its hard to justify wasting money, just to get reamed.

Everyone will always think it was better X-amount of years ago, it's easy to look fondly on years gone by. Car guys in the 60s probably said it was better in the 50s, guys in the 70s probably said it was better in the 60s, and so on and so on until you get to the present day.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 11:14 PM
I get that. I guess my personal issue with it is that it is mentioned, and when you ask about it, no you can't join. It shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place.

There's another valid point. How are you expected to maintained a constructive community when many long term members feel bitter about being excluded from the group?

ido09s
03-11-10, 11:14 PM
IMO there is just to much ego in everything!

I don know that its ego, i think its more about whats needed to be accepted in todays society. Just go to Auto Salon (Sorry Charles) and everything will be explained. Auto Salon sums up exactly where the car scene is these days and its not good.....

llama_au
03-11-10, 11:20 PM
There's another valid point. How are you expected to maintained a constructive community when many long term members feel bitter about being excluded from the group?

I may not have been around this forum from it's inception but I've been around the scene for a decent amount of time. I attend a lot of social events (mainly on car-specific forums), I contribute as much as I can, I like to be involved. My entire life revolves around cars. Consequently I frequent about 7 car forums daily.

Everyone should have the right to feel included. That's fundamentally what's starting to leave the scene (not just this forum.)

ido09s
03-11-10, 11:20 PM
Everyone will always think it was better X-amount of years ago, it's easy to look fondly on years gone by. Car guys in the 60s probably said it was better in the 50s, guys in the 70s probably said it was better in the 60s, and so on and so on until you get to the present day.

You must be a youngster because i can tell you now, the car scene back in the late 80's early 90's was a lot better than it is now. Dolls Point on Sunday afternoon, Bondi on Sunday night. Cops were there, sure, but they sat and watched people and booked someone when they did something wrong. These days you park anywhere for more than a few minutes and your treated like a criminal and told to go home before you get arrested for being a hoon or some stupid shit.

If you honestly think what you have now is good you are delirious. Car owners got along and if you aksed someone about their car they spoke to you like a human about it and you didnt get the fucking hero attitude that everyone has today. The modified car scene of today is fucked believe me.

Ask my girlfriend, i always tell her that i want to go back to the late 80's early 90's and get stuck there, but i need to figure out how to take her back with me first....

wernz
03-11-10, 11:23 PM
I don know that its ego, i think its more about whats needed to be accepted in todays society. Just go to Auto Salon (Sorry Charles) and everything will be explained. Auto Salon sums up exactly where the car scene is these days and its not good.....

I reckon if your not building your car for your self, then your a total idiot.
Cannot handle majority of auto salon, its to out of control for me. But that may be just my tastes

cristian
03-11-10, 11:23 PM
the same could be said about any topic... cars not staying 'true' to jdm...hip hop isn't hip hop aymore...religion is probably where it happens at it's largest form...

it's already been said...but "hater's gonna hate" :D i say fk the crowd that say you're not doing a good job of ur car because ur mods aren't the way they see fit...

anth
03-11-10, 11:26 PM
If you honestly think what you have now is good you are delirious. Car owners got along and if you aksed someone about their car they spoke to you like a human about it and you didnt get the fucking hero attitude that everyone has today. The modified car scene of today is fucked believe me.

I think you read my post the wrong way around, you're sort of agreeing with me, I didn't say it was better today.

wernz
03-11-10, 11:27 PM
the same could be said about any topic... cars not staying 'true' to jdm...hip hop isn't hip hop aymore...religion is probably where it happens at it's largest form...

it's already been said...but "hater's gonna hate" :D i say fk the crowd that say you're not doing a good job of ur car because ur mods aren't the way they see fit...

Love it :)

Taz_
03-11-10, 11:27 PM
This is a good discussion.

There are a couple of points being made here,

I think much of it has to do with the JDM/car scene and JDMST as a forum.

To the original point re: copying of a style or 'buzz' item, there will be those who truly understand the origins of a style or item and those who will mindlessly copy it. At the end of the day I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme.

There will always be innovators and those who are inspired by or blatantly copy them.

For years people have jumped on some bandwagon or another, a trend or 'scene' emerges, gets played out and then another one carries on. JDMST is not really about a bandwagon, sure JDM is more popular and for good or bad that's jus the way it is.

People used to sport HKS and Trust stickers on their cars without having the parts as a way to fit in or for a variety of reasons. Everyone has to start somewhere.

People want Hellaflush/Illest stickers for a variety of reasons, some really like the style, others think it's cool, others just want to jump on a bandwagon for some form of ego stroking way to fit in. With the internet these 'scenes' have spread much quicker and there is of course the marketing that goes with it.

This will come and go with the fashion of the time.

With restrictions on modifications getting tighter and the costs of insurance etc. rising it is only natural that people focus more on appearance style mods rather than more hardcore power build ups.

I think what matters is that people can at least respect others' taste even if it may not be your own, and try and make the effort to educate those either by example or gently letting them know something without endless threads on why someones car is rubbish.

What made JDMST great was it was where like minded Japanese car enthusiasts could gather both offline and online.

Now there is a great deal of noise in relation to this signal/noise ratio that was mentioned before. Much of it has to do with the older folk being busier than before and having less time to devote to the forum.

The long term members are still around and post, perhaps less often but they are still there.

I remember my first EOMM, I didn't know a soul and it was somewhat intimidating at first.

I met a few folks there that I am now friends with and I am grateful for JDMST for introducing me to the larger community, to track days and photography. There is nothing wrong with this, sure there are more posts about some guy taking photos with their 50mm 1.8 around the house than there are about DIY or setting your ignition timing and turbo installs.

The increase in size and the spread of forums as a whole has meant it feels less of a 'home' so I find people respect this place and the people in it less and less over time.

ido09s
03-11-10, 11:29 PM
I reckon if your not building your car for your self, then your a total idiot.
Cannot handle majority of auto salon, its to out of control for me. But that may be just my tastes

Couldnt agree more and its why the car scene today has gone to crap. Everyone seems to build cars to keep people happy and to look good for the chicks lol

Its part of the reason the S14 doesnt come out to meets and it gets raced behind the closed doors of private track days at WSID.

Trolls Royce
03-11-10, 11:37 PM
I don't wanna be the guy that says what I'm about to say, but this thread was kinda more about whats happening with this one community and it's members and direction, rather than what the car scene was 15 years ago and how much we all supposedly don't like Auto Salon.

danielb
03-11-10, 11:50 PM
Do you really think thats the case Daniel because honestly i think its quite the opposite. Hellaflush and poke and offsets have made people have a total disregard for the law with regard to tyre and wheel fitment and ride height. Power mods are quite easy to make legal if you use your head and think about things for a little while.

Sure, i agree there. Just personally, i've noticed an increased police presence. I could be wrong though. Media spotlight also doesn't help matters.

Or maybe i'm just getting old and CBF dealing with that shit now :lol:


You must be a youngster because i can tell you now, the car scene back in the late 80's early 90's was a lot better than it is now. Dolls Point on Sunday afternoon, Bondi on Sunday night. Cops were there, sure, but they sat and watched people and booked someone when they did something wrong. These days you park anywhere for more than a few minutes and your treated like a criminal and told to go home before you get arrested for being a hoon or some stupid shit.

If you honestly think what you have now is good you are delirious. Car owners got along and if you aksed someone about their car they spoke to you like a human about it and you didnt get the fucking hero attitude that everyone has today. The modified car scene of today is fucked believe me.

Ask my girlfriend, i always tell her that i want to go back to the late 80's early 90's and get stuck there, but i need to figure out how to take her back with me first....

Aren't you also just kinda agreeing with what i said earlier?

Not that it matters haha, not really relevant to the thread i guess.

wernz
03-11-10, 11:54 PM
But all these outside influences are apart of what this forum has become...?
I mean i am still new to the JDM scene and JDMST, being in it for roughly 1 year now. I probably haven't seen as much change on here as much as the old school guys have. But i have come from a aussie V8 car scene and the same is happening there.
I guess it's part and parcel of anything that gets bigger with time. Things can get lost...?

Mr Happ
04-11-10, 12:00 AM
whats the fix bros? :neutral:

Chewbacca
04-11-10, 12:04 AM
In my opinion, this forum has turned into a large number of people riding each others dicks and calling people by their actual names to prove they know each other/hang out/are down with all the cool kids. Do you guys really need to prove your friends with so and so? If you're genuinely friends with people and part of a group, why would you bother continously dick riding them in their threads and continually reinforcing how great you believe their car is? if you're mates in real life, wouldn't you have already shared your feelings with how great there car when you're actually hanging out opposed to jumping into each others threads and being all like "sick car, sick offset, can I have your babies?"
How are people supposed to feel accepted and part of an actual community if people are forming their own littles groups in each others threads & meet-up's and going on with personal jokes etc? Someone else mentioned it before, every car meet these days has multiple small groups of people who don't even acknolwedge each other opposed to everyone talking shit and enjoying themselves, why the fuck are people adopting the entire elitist douche bag mentality? It's killing the so called 'scene' and has been like a cancer for quite a while now.

Further to this, us Australian's have for some reason always been a little bit slow to coin onto trends and styles and we have also not been able to execute the 'in' trends 'properly' until recently. For fuck's sake, everyones idea of an awesome 180/S13 is going back to late 90's/early 00's Japan styling.. Don't get me wrong, I love this style of modifying but does anyone else realise, we're trying to replicate a trend nearly 10 years later!
USDM style hasn't helped us much either with there garish attitudes towards styling.. Everything cool needs BN (BN is sick) or Uras and needs to be touching the ground with the tyres rubbing the guards, how many of you actually realise that 90% of those cars that are always photographed are actually rarely driven and a large number of them are still KA2XDE powered? Everyone's getting there vag's wet over a car which is almost all show and no go. I remember when only a few years ago everyone would frown upon a car with just a pod and a catback but now, because something has good fitment and is low, its instantly cool? Some people have the idea and are getting it right whilst also driving the shit outta their cars, the majority are all about trying to get the right fitment and get the right angles/spots for photo's. How many threads have you all seen lately with some actual fucking action shots? I'll tell you - very very fucking few.

OOarrrrrrrrarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 12:05 AM
whats the fix bros? :neutral:

You've come to the conclusion that it can be fixed, so I guess you're a step ahead of me.

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 12:12 AM
Rock. I liked your first post in this thread but I think every single one after that has been written in spite.

Maybe you need to think about why you're so upset about JDMST.

Where most people are trying to be constructive your posts read like you vs the mods.
I'm even beginning to wonder why you even bother wasting your time here if you're not into it!

Maybe i've missed something in regards to how you've been treated on here, or how you'd like to be treated? If it's a personal issue you have with an administrator or moderator I urge you to give me a call and let's perhaps talk it through instead of trying your best to point the finger and derail individuals who have given so much to JDMST.

In regards to van and jtype. I was initially very upset about the concept of a forum built by poaching long standing members from my forum. When van invited me on he perhaps regretted it as I didn't find it comfortable at all that jtype members were openly talking about jdmst in a negative light. I retaliated and since then talking about jdmst on jtype is not on (probably frustrating).

In any case. You have the completely wrong idea. I'll happily talk to you about it in private but not here out of respect to van and all jtype members.

Some great posts though guys, thanks for taking the time, and putting yourselves and your reputations in the firing line. I really appreciate it.

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 12:20 AM
whats the fix bros? :neutral:

Personally, after reading all of these posts and agreeing with the good things people still get out of JDMST. I think it's not broken at all.

I'm not forcing people to join JDMST. I'm not forcing people to come to EOMM's. The choice is theirs and always has been.

I'll continue to put more of my time into JDMST so long as I'm into it. Full stop.

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 12:26 AM
Rock. I liked your first post in this thread but I think every single one after that has been written in spite.

Maybe you need to think about why you're so upset about JDMST.

Where most people are trying to be constructive your posts read like you vs the mods.
I'm even beginning to wonder why you even bother wasting your time here if you're not into it!

Maybe i've missed something in regards to how you've been treated on here, or how you'd like to be treated? If it's a personal issue you have with an administrator or moderator I urge you to give me a call and let's perhaps talk it through instead of trying your best to point the finger and derail individuals who have given so much to JDMST.

In regards to van and jtype. I was initially very upset about the concept of a forum built by poaching long standing members from my forum. When van invited me on he perhaps regretted it as I didn't find it comfortable at all that jtype members were openly talking about jdmst in a negative light. I retaliated and since then talking about jdmst on jtype is not on (probably frustrating).

In any case. You have the completely wrong idea. I'll happily talk to you about it in private but not here out of respect to van and all jtype members.

Some great posts though guys, thanks for taking the time, and putting yourselves and your reputations in the firing line. I really appreciate it.

Quite the opposite Justin.

What I am getting at is what is missing from this forum. The reason it is missing from this forum is because, as you said, it was poached and placed in a private community without telling anyone. If you read back through everything I've mentioned, this is the main issue that I have with it.

I haven't been treated in any particular way which makes me feel bitter or spiteful, and if anything, I am more than happy to talk to anyone in the moderator team about what I feel went wrong here. Perhaps it just shows that I'm annoyed that a community I've been a part of for quite some time has deteriorated due to what I have already mentioned.

Is J-Type a private forum? Yes
Have people tried to keep is a secret? Yes
Did J-Type poach the best members from JDMST? By your own admissions, yes
Would this be classed as elitist? Yes
Is this contradictory to what has been stated as the vision for JDMST as a community? Yes

Not out to pick fights with you, van or any other moderators. Just stating facts, which everything above is.

To be honest, what annoys me most, is that you've pretty much trivialised everything I've said and then questioned why I am on here.

Pull your head in, read the thread again and have a think about it.

hawkeye
04-11-10, 12:30 AM
Been following this discussion since it went up today and it has to be one of the best I have ever seen on this site (only made better by Reapers stormtrooper pics!)

I have not been into the "JDM" scene for that long (still dont own a JDM car) but my observations so far are:

For the most part everyone has a different idea/ view of what "JDM" is. For a lot of people this seems to mean camber and flush wheels, for others it is cable ties and rattle cans, while still others believe it means minimalist cosmetic (nice wheels and stock looks) mods with big power/ ability. All of these to me are correct.

I agree with Biggie and others who have said it is a philosphy of:

"do what you want, for yourself and be happy with it"

From the reading and viewing I have done (in the last two years or so) of car culture in Japan this seems to be the core belief of 99.9% of modifiers. Wether it is Shakotan or Bazuko (sp?) or VIP all these guys in Japan tend to say that they mod their cars to the way they want and then enjoy the hell out of them. This I feel is the essence of "JDM" its not a style, it is a philosophy of modding and car ownership.

Personally I feel that this forum tends to follow this. You look through the car diary section and you see people putting together their dream rides, the way they want to, because at the end of the day they will be driving it and living with it. We all want to walk outside (or into the garage) of a morning and look at the cars we have chosen and built and feel happy about them. These are the people who I believe are the true JDMers.

Now having said that, there are a few people who seem to just want to score "interwebs points" by running certain wheels or offsets or having stickers everywhere. These people need to sit back and have a think about why they got into the modding scene in the first place. What is the point of doing this sort of thing for someone else? You will eventually realise you dont like what you have done and sell up, move on or hate yourself. I have no problems if you want to put massive chrome woks on your rexxy or lancer or if you want suede wheels and LCD screens in your petrol tank; as long as it is right by you I dont mind and I will celebrate the fact that you are taking part in a hobby you love.

Another observation I have made about the "JDM" scene (or any scene for that matter) is that they become labels due more to a human psychological need to sort out ideas and concepts than anything else. We need these labels so we can sort out our lives and define the world in which we live. However like all things in life it isnt a perfect system. There will always be grey areas and crossovers from section to section. The way I see this relating to this website is that we should allow and celebrate everything that comes our way because odds are that some part of the build or idea will appeal to us and if we close out people, cars and ideas because they arent "JDM enough" then we will lose the innovation that makes this community so great.

I'm still thinking about the other points that have come up in this thread so I am sure I will be back with more in a bit.

Just my 2c:cool:

Edit:
Just thought I would metion something about the EOMM's

I have only had the pleasure of going to one very small one here in Sydney (maybe 15 people, was a rainy night near Strathfield....) and I knew one person there. I had a ball, got to meet some cool people and look at some very cool cars. Everyone was nice and pretty inviting (had to say no to free timtams like fifty times! thats how nice these guys were (think it was Somos who was handing them round)), so I am not sure if this is different to what normally occurs, but I think it worked pretty well and I have been trying to get to the bigger meets (work is a pain) to soak up more of the culture. So this website and its members have definatly made a good impression on me.

Stivo
04-11-10, 12:32 AM
Quite the opposite Justin.

What I am getting at is what is missing from this forum. The reason it is missing from this forum is because, as you said, it was poached and placed in a private community without telling anyone. If you read back through everything I've mentioned, this is the main issue that I have with it.

I haven't been treated in any particular way which makes me feel bitter or spiteful, and if anything, I am more than happy to talk to anyone in the moderator team about what I feel went wrong here. Perhaps it just shows that I'm annoyed that a community I've been a part of for quite some time has deteriorated due to what I have already mentioned.

Is J-Type a private forum? Yes
Have people tried to keep is a secret? Yes
Did J-Type poach the best members from JDMST? By your own admissions, yes
Would this be classed as elitist? Yes
Is this contradictory to what has been stated as the vision for JDMST as a community? Yes

Not out to pick fights with you, van or any other moderators. Just stating facts, which everything above is.

To be honest, what annoys me most, is that you've pretty much trivialised everything I've said and then questioned why I am on here.

Pull your head in, read the thread again and have a think about it.

Thing is, everyone from said forum still posts regularly on JDMST. You make it sound like they were stolen and locked in a vault or something?

Shiri
04-11-10, 12:42 AM
Here's my brutal assessment.

I don't post on JDMST as much because of the following reasons:
1. Threads posted in off topic bore me the life out of me.
2. My car isn't creating me any dramas that warrant me seeking opinions.
3. Moderating a large community takes a lot of effort and time.

It has nothing to do with my external factors with other forums and communities so I don't think blanket statements should be made about that having any influence on JDMST's content. I get different experiences from different sources on the web. To be honest, My reason for being on JDMST's to me hasn't changed at all... it's just not as important as other things in my life.

I think you'll find that this is the case with almost every 'long standing member' who no longer frequents JDMST. People grow and change and thus want and need different things.

The simplest reason is usually the right one.

Gorilla
04-11-10, 12:43 AM
Its a vicious cycle lads.

When i got my first car (Starlet GT) id do google (or yahoo & altavista back then) searches on Starlets in Japan, becuase there wernt any here (This is back in 99/2000). I found the V300 Gold starlet in a 1998 Tokyo Autosalon albulm, and was set to make mine like that....it never eventuated as i was getting paid $400 a week and studying..

This was before forums were popular. I didnt know JDM style, and those Jap wheels that i like now, I thought look garbage back then. I went to AGR tyres and bought 17" Momo Sport copies for my starlet. I found the Fast Fours Forums, Spent a few good years there...then like this place, kids came in......I grew out of FFF when i bought my first Supra. There was no supraforums (Only american), but we had a Yahoo List for Aussie Supramembers, which we eventuated into what the forums are now. Im a trader on that Forum, but like this forum, kids came in...and all i go on that forum is to now check my pm's. check some semi technical threads, and my trader section.

This forum, i first met JFox at a track day. He told me about the makings of the forum, and i was keen to join. There wasnt many of us, and we had a tight community. I bought my first ever set of Rays and Tein coilovers for my old IS200, had no idea what the spring rates were or the offsets or even width the wheels were...it was all reccomended...Now with so many members here, so many different cars, this is what is great about this forum. I learnt new things about style...not technical. I leave that for Toymods. If i need a technical issue sorted, im bound to get it there..if I need some automobile car candy fix, i come here for all the awesome pics and great build threads. There are some threads on here that are not my thing, i just ignore it, and look what i want to look at.

i think what im getting at is, once i get older, i see what the younder chaps are doing and its not my thing...i tend to move on...

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 12:44 AM
Thing is, everyone from said forum still posts regularly on JDMST. You make it sound like they were stolen and locked in a vault or something?

No, not at all. I'm not trying to draw a line in the sand and say that people are either on one side or the other. I'm sure there are many members active on both forums, as well as many others, and that is entirely not the point.

J-Type strikes me as a forum comprising of a close-knit group of JDMST members who wanted some kind of invite only community, for whatever purpose.

The question was asked at the start of this thread, has this forum started to lose its integrity, and I believe the answer is yes. I believe that the creation of the J-Type forum is partly to do with this. You can't seriously try and tell me that there is absolutely no technical or social content that JDMST members miss out on by not being a part of it, can you?

Gorilla
04-11-10, 12:48 AM
Dunno why you keep bringing J-Type into the discussion man. Its a totally different forum to any i have been on. Its not really a dedicated Car forum. Its been around for a few years too. I doubt it was created to "steal" the good members from jdmst...otherwise id be questioning how i got on it :P.

Stivo
04-11-10, 12:48 AM
I think being less technical is generally the by product of having such a broadly themed community. Those who are inclined to more tech-spec related information would probably turn towards the niche make/model communities for help.

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 12:53 AM
I wouldn't say steal would be the right word. Maybe I've used that word previously in this thread, can't be bothered going back to find it. Whether people feel it was stolen, or it moved, or it migrated, or whatever wording you might use, content and members were split between the two. As I said before, I believe this has caused the forum to lose it's integrity.

I do feel like I'm repeating myself here quite a bit.

How about we all agree to disagree, delete the thread, I'll go back to being me and you guys go back to being you. Sound good?

Mitchee
04-11-10, 12:56 AM
J-Type strikes me as a forum comprising of a close-knit group of JDMST members who wanted some kind of invite only community, for whatever purpose.

I don't believe you should form an opinion on something you know little about.

There are just as many (if not more) elitist and standoffish groups of people on this forum. TLM crew, homebush crew etc. The EOMM's prove this and its just pathetic. You give people a nod and a gday and you get looked at as if you are from another planet. Its reflected back in some sections of the forums, with pages upon pages of threads containing nothing but bro talk. Its really pathetic.

mph
04-11-10, 12:58 AM
Ironically, the internet is to blame.
I miss the days of tough street cars, blown, tunnel rammed, tubbed, whatever, cruising every weekend.
Thats all.

BURST
04-11-10, 12:59 AM
Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture?
As a designer, you look to other cultures, other societies for inspiration, and what you create is your interpretation of this culture/society. I don't think you need to look into the history of their ideas and inspirations. Knowing that JDM subway rings came from the Bosozoku style of tuning in Japan is a good enough understanding, and you don't need to know who first put a subway ring on the back of their car, or off which subway the first ring was taken off.

In the end, I don't believe we are 'copying' the tuning style in Japan, but creating our own style that is highly influenced by the scene in Japan. And for that reason I think people need to be less uptight about 'I don't like this, it's not JDM'; we're not JDM.


Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?
I'm not sure what this question is asking, but I see this forum as a community where people can enjoy cars, and other stuff not related to cars. Some people complain that there is not much technical information on this forum, and too much blabbering but that's what I like about it. You can come on to JDMST to kill time, chat about useless things and look at cool pictures. I don't think it's possible for JDMST to be a good technical forum as it just caters for too many different cars, if I needed information about my car I would go to a car-specific forum to dig through the massive amounts of information.

Gorilla
04-11-10, 01:00 AM
The EOMM's prove this and its just pathetic. You give people a nod and a gday and you get looked at as if you are from another planet.

Ive never experienced this at an EOMM, but if that is true, thats definatley not on! We are all car enthusiests, we all share similar likes.....I guess to some people its all a competition?

Mitchee
04-11-10, 01:03 AM
Ive never experienced this at an EOMM, but if that is true, thats definatley not on! We are all car enthusiests, we all share similar likes.....I guess to some people its all a competition?

Bingo, which is why we are here in this thread discussing the topic.

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 01:09 AM
I don't believe you should form an opinion on something you know little about.

There are just as many (if not more) elitist and standoffish groups of people on this forum. TLM crew, homebush crew etc. The EOMM's prove this and its just pathetic. You give people a nod and a gday and you get looked at as if you are from another planet.

I'll form opinions on whatever I like, and if I am asked for them, which it seems I was to an extent in this thread, I will voice those opinions.

As you can see from the past 6 pages, it seems I'm not alone in my opinions and feelings.

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 01:13 AM
Ive never experienced this at an EOMM, but if that is true, thats definatley not on! We are all car enthusiests, we all share similar likes.....I guess to some people its all a competition?

Here's what I don't get about some of the EOMM's lately.

I went to one which was at KK's, end of Sept I think? Small crowd, friendly people, met a few dudes I didn't know previously and had a great night.

Last one at JDMYard was awful. Bunch of dudes stuntin' hard next to their cars and trying to avoid talking to anyone except their mates they arrived with.

I don't even think half the people at the last EOMM were from this forum?

MKH
04-11-10, 01:16 AM
I know I haven't been here long, but I joined JDMST because I wanted to meet some people, and check out the JDM scene in Sydney. I've never been to any meet-ups, because it seems that unless you're a 'photographer' or have a lot of disposable income to spend on your car(or Apple products), you just won't fit in.

This is not a problem with the scene in general as I've met some really nice people from the Swift and Corolla/AE86 communities, they tend to not care about how your car looks, but how you drive it. I'm sure there are some nice people on here, but it does seem like a closed off community to an outsider.

SUROK
04-11-10, 01:19 AM
This forum has been losing its integrity for quite some time. You've actually outlined it yourself with your vision of how lesser educated members would gather knowledge, through picture threads and featured members rides.

This forum has next to no technical knowledge base, and if there is one, it's not really shared around. The majority of people here only care about wheel size/offset and what kind of front lip they're running. Nobody really seems interested in how to drive a car, or where to drive a car, but moreso where to take photos and what lenses they should be using. EOMM's are a joke. I've never seen a more standoffish bunch of guys in my life.

I'm not by any means suggesting that you're a fake enthusiast if you're not at the track every weekend, or racing up some dark twisty road every night.

Let's face it, have any of you guys ever seen so many photoshoot threads, photo blogs and amatuer photography websites? We are more or less a forum full of car photographers.

It's pretty sad to see it happen to a forum that has introduced me to a lot of the friends that I have now.

^ this

Modified
04-11-10, 01:19 AM
Here's what I don't get about some of the EOMM's lately.

I went to one which was at KK's, end of Sept I think? Small crowd, friendly people, met a few dudes I didn't know previously and had a great night.

Last one at JDMYard was awful. Bunch of dudes stuntin' hard next to their cars and trying to avoid talking to anyone except their mates they arrived with.

I don't even think half the people at the last EOMM were from this forum?

Tobys Top Tip:

Rock on up with an A4 page on the window of your car displaying your forum username. Wear a namebadge with your username on it, so people can wander up an say "Hey man, how'd you do that/this/I like your car" without worrying about talking to the wrong person.

See, you give me a problem, I' sovle it, check out the hook while me DJ revolves it.

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 01:23 AM
Tobys Top Tip:

Rock on up with an A4 page on the window of your car displaying your forum username. Wear a namebadge with your username on it, so people can wander up an say "Hey man, how'd you do that/this/I like your car" without worrying about talking to the wrong person.

See, you give me a problem, I' sovle it, check out the hook while me DJ revolves it.

There's an iPhone app with similar functions for some communities called Grindr.

God
04-11-10, 01:26 AM
I don't believe you should form an opinion on something you know little about.

There are just as many (if not more) elitist and standoffish groups of people on this forum. TLM crew, homebush crew etc. The EOMM's prove this and its just pathetic. You give people a nod and a gday and you get looked at as if you are from another planet. Its reflected back in some sections of the forums, with pages upon pages of threads containing nothing but bro talk. Its really pathetic.

I've seen this both on forums and in life on the road. EOMM's I have been to generally consist of a few isolated groups that refuse to associate with anyone but their own crowd, whereas the Jtype crowd tries to mingle and make friends with all (but, are often resisted by bro's/hard****s).

The same thing happened at school, and it has always been shit. I choose to associate with a particular type of person. Let's call this type, J, if you will. The J's are generally nice, down to earth guys, that you can hang out with and not feel intimidated by. The J's will actively try to engage in conversation with other people for all manner of reasons, be it "By gosh, that's an absolutely dapper moustache you have there Sir", or "FUCK A DUCK! That's a sick Torana!". I also know that J's will be friends with other J's, so if I meet a J, I can be confident I will become friends with his friends, and the awesomeness will increase.

This is contrasted by other minorities that shed exclusivity by shunning others and having in-jokes. These Bro-types are what we are commonly finding in JDMST - forums and EOMMs. Belittling others that aren't on the in, or even ignoring them, is what makes people think "well stuff this.. there's no point being here". It happens a lot in build threads in particular, which means you need to sift through 22 pages of cock-sucking to see one piece of car-related blogging.

When the Bro's realise they are being Bro's, and start acting a bit more like J's, this forum will be a powerful force once more. I dream of the day that I can walk up to a complete stranger at an EOMM and say "Hi, I'm Luke. I've got that Sileighty over there. What's your name?" and actually get greeted with a smile, a handshake, and a good conversation.

God
04-11-10, 01:29 AM
I've never been to any meet-ups, because it seems that unless you're a 'photographer' or have a lot of disposable income to spend on your car(or Apple products), you just won't fit in.


I'll lend you a macbook to carry around with you at the next meet :lol:

lilandonaki
04-11-10, 01:37 AM
-

SUROK
04-11-10, 01:49 AM
i got over jdmst, it became a shit place to be, when i first joined it was awesome so many cool helpful people.. now its all about the latest fad car and replica font lips and sportmaxxes.. and shame on JDMYARD for selling sportmaxxes and fake shit.

Mike.V?!
04-11-10, 02:00 AM
Thanks for keeping it real, SUROK

VTECMACHINE
04-11-10, 02:06 AM
I agree with jdmSTYLEtuning aspect of things. Nowadays its about copying cars tuned in Japan (JGTC, Super Taiku, drift etc etc) purely for street cred. The amount of people on this forum that own 'race cars' and have them sit in the garage pisses me off a little. What's the point?

The real JDMer's are the people that have cars that look JDM, but don't intend on doing so - but just by adding those race parts makes it look the part.

I bought my DC2R and knew exactly what I wanted to do with it, before I knew forums existed and before I had heard the word JDM. Then I found JDMST, and some aspects of the car changed compared to my original plans - so saying that JDMST had inspired me to find out more about Jap tuning culture and hence allowed to Rice out my Honda. The evo is pure wank JDM shit though and I admit it. I plan to have illest and herra frush stickers everywhere.

I personally think those subway rings look gay. They are for trains, and not for cars. Fair enough those yellow and green things... they are made for cars. Just funny how you don't get cars in japan rocking out gay L plates.

Justin, JDMST isn't broken. I love it, and regardless of how many times you ban me I love coming back here. I admit it's def not the same as when I first joined nearly 5 years ago or whatever - but that's what you get when you get big. It's such a social forum, and I love how tight the SPAM guys are. I'm surprised that the JDMST Honda scene has become much smaller! I like organising the JDMST OMGWTFBBQ every year, purely cos I can see everyone mingle and have fun. All in all, your doing a good job, bro. Although, haven't heard much from my collar poppin' mod lately.

mr zed x
04-11-10, 02:12 AM
its the whole car scene these days.
pathetic.

everybody wants the knock off $100 apexi gauge or thousand dollar respray to fit in.
thats exactly what kills it, with abundances of fake crap, theres nothing left to really save for and really aspire to get.
'why save the 2.7k for my bride seats, when holfords etc, sell replicas for $600.' is the mentality i get from alot of mates, i have to sit and really think.

were so over run by greed and envy, that we as a car community cannot see eye to eye anymore. rather than accepting what the other modifier does, we critique it and criticize, what THEY wanted from there car.

the latest craze, 'hellaflush', really annoys me too.
if you dont have negative offsets, your not 'stanced'. and its the way the whole JDM scene is moving ! (im not one to talk with 9" +5, 10' +5 wheels on a stock bodies z32)
you get laughed at etc, if you're too high, or your offsets weak! and people push it, to be truelly JDM you need you lip, and mass offset/camber. its just not the case!

it makes me despise the whole JDM scene. the purist paying top dollar for stuff companies rip off at a third of the price and the groupies that see function > form.

what happened to the good old days, where everyone appreciated what the other had. guess we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Mike.V?!
04-11-10, 02:27 AM
I agree with jdmSTYLEtuning aspect of things. Nowadays its about copying cars tuned in Japan (JGTC, Super Taiku, drift etc etc) purely for street cred. The amount of people on this forum that own 'race cars' and have them sit in the garage pisses me off a little. What's the point?


Because it's their car and it makes them happy?

Mike.V?!
04-11-10, 02:34 AM
How can you say this



everybody wants the knock off $100 apexi gauge or thousand dollar respray to fit in.
thats exactly what kills it, with abundances of fake crap, theres nothing left to really save for and really aspire to get.
'why save the 2.7k for my bride seats, when holfords etc, sell replicas for $600.' is the mentality i get from alot of mates, i have to sit and really think.

..and then go on to say this


rather than accepting what the other modifier does, we critique it and criticize, what THEY wanted from there car.

I think to REALLY push JDMST to the next level we need to let go of our ideals of little bit. Stop being so concerned with JDM Style Tuning is and should be and work a bit harder on the way we interact with each other. The bigger we get the more diverse tastes/ideas will be and we need to accept that. We can't disallow from participating because their idea of JDM doesn't fit in with what the initial 'vision' of JDMST was. At the same time, it's hard to stay true to your roots while accommodating diversity.

Instead of hating on the guy who rocks the fake wheels, try to understand why the guy rocks the fake wheels.

Downshift
04-11-10, 02:58 AM
I love JDMST, ever since I found it way back in 07 at school. I googled R32 GTR on CE28N's and it came up with Justins build thread just as he had put the CE's on. It has been a up and down ride that is for sure. I have met a fuck tonne of good friends off here and cherish the site for that. It has definitely done something right, but I find it funny that the people whinging in here about 'newbies' being all about offset and photography ( I skim read) and people rocking fake wheels and parts and all that jazz. Are the ones who are ALWAYS whinging about shit.

JDMST is full of elitists. More than anything else, everyone judges the absolute fuck out of you on here. I don't know whether that is what the car scene is like down south but up here in Brisbane we all get along and don't act pretentious over menial things. I just recently got banned so I am trying to avoid really being a dick, and believe me it is a hard task. Sick of hearing everyones pussy QQ's about stupid things. "Oh wtf offset is to much can't drive your car in anger". JDMST doesn't even allow the promotion of regular hard driving, so how would you fucking know if someone drives in anger or not. Who cares if someone hardparks, or someone tracks their car every weekend, or someone street drifts once a week. Everyone has their choices. Whinging about fake wheels is like crying over spilt milk, I was once an avid hater of fakes but now I couldnt give two shits. If the car looks good, it looks good.

Charlie's red NA6 is a prime example. TE37V's in offsets he didn't want were around the $3000-$3500 mark. Rota Grid V's were $950 delivered. You would have to be the BIGGEST fucking wheel whore to spot the difference straight up. It none the less looks stupidly badass whether they are real or not. Americans have proved fakes can mesh with genuines. This site needs to focus less on the un-informed and more on the overly informed.

Keep it up though Justin, you have created what I dub my all time favorite car forum. I love the community and will continue to support and voice my love for the site.

7Hazi
04-11-10, 03:29 AM
I have been in the car scene ever since I was a kid (my brothers were quite involved in the car scene and I'd always tag along for cruises/meets/etc) and I certainly don't enjoy it as much as I used to. I have owned my car for a year and a half and have only been in the car scene (when I say car scene I mean forums, meets and crap like that) for about half a year and I am already sick of it... I'm not even sure why though. I agree with previous observations that it seems like the whole scene is like a big competition - I guess this is partly what annoys me. Additionally, it seems as though SOME people just follow fads and just shun anyone or anything that doesn't comply with what is 'cool'. What's worse is that if you say "I don't like hellaflush" (or whatever is cool at the time) you get people getting all pissy at you. Regarding the whole fake wheels thing - If you say you like fake wheels then people who only like real wheels chuck a spaz; if you say you only like real wheels then people who like fake wheels chuck a spaz...It almost seems like no matter WHAT you do or say someone is going to have a whinge about it (yes I admit I have winged on here about fads) - hence why I am now kinda staying away from the car scene and just worrying about myself... If you need to go on a forum or go to a meet or something to feel good about your car (showing off and getting people saying you're awesome) then you are doing something wrong!

...but yeah - the picture threads on here are awesome! :lol:

mr zed x
04-11-10, 04:26 AM
I think to REALLY push JDMST to the next level we need to let go of our ideals of little bit. Stop being so concerned with JDM Style Tuning is and should be and work a bit harder on the way we interact with each other. The bigger we get the more diverse tastes/ideas will be and we need to accept that. We can't disallow from participating because their idea of JDM doesn't fit in with what the initial 'vision' of JDMST was. At the same time, it's hard to stay true to your roots while accommodating diversity.

Instead of hating on the guy who rocks the fake wheels, try to understand why the guy rocks the fake wheels.

i guess i threw mixed messages, my key point was, we all do shit differently.
some the cheap nasty way, some follow fads others do it their own.

i personally dont care what others do, their car, their money. but the scenes dead because most dont accept that..
personally i dont use JDMst. theres 4-5 guys i know or like, the rest seem snobby or uninterested.

its no longer a community but a place to try and show up the next guy. hardly a place one would feel welcome.

Intense
04-11-10, 04:27 AM
The other thing I like about this place is the huge variety of cars. It's a double edged sword though with a lack of technical information but you do get lots of variety which is nice. I'm a huge forum whore signed up to a whole crap load of forums and though I don't post all that much I read tons (ausrotor, ae86dc, hr.net, jdmst, ns.com, sau, jzx100, toymods, rx7 club, teamfc3s, secretdrift, garagedori, etc). And while it's good having a lot of the same car represented it gets boring real fast.

From what I see though here we have a different issue. People who support genuine products and people who can't afford them and settle for replicas. It creates a bit of a divide in the community but honestly I think this is a good thing. Nothing is hurting the industry more than knock off parts and people supporting them, genuine companys that invest time into r&d and are actaully enthusiasts don't deserve to lose money to a mass produced knock off item made cheaper by being made to inferiour standards. So how do we deal with this problem?

Oxer
04-11-10, 06:42 AM
I just spent a good 40 minutes typing an essay of a reply for this thread, But realised its not worth it, because to 99.9% of anyone who reads it, my opinion would be meaningless.

Sp33dY
04-11-10, 09:01 AM
I just spent a good 40 minutes typing an essay of a reply for this thread, But realised its not worth it, because to 99.9% of anyone who reads it, my opinion would be meaningless.
x2 .... ive read the whole thread, and i knew where this thread was gonna go as soon as i read Justin's first post yday. Whilst threads like this can bring some positiveness towards the future of this forum, it also defines why many long term members like myself rarely post anything on JDMST these days.

dopey
04-11-10, 09:12 AM
Internet. Serious Business.

somos
04-11-10, 09:13 AM
I must admit most of the posts here have been quite saddening and disheartening. If we're all about trying to build up a community, then it seems to be a community of hate and distrust.

I haven't been in the scene for very long, my parents weren't into cars (like a lot of you seem to have), i have no friends who are into cars, etc. So i was pretty happy when i joined JDMST and found such a great online place (after previously being in Boostcruising, which has far more haters). But it definitely isn't the easiest place to get in to. When i attended my first EOMM no one talked to me, save for 1. It's just difficult when everyone is in their groups and looking, as Rock put it, "stand-offish".

If everyone is thinking that J-Type is elitist then i must point out that JDMST is no different for non-JDMST people. It's especially hard for new members. It seems that new members must work especially hard to get in nowadays, to break down the social barriers that stand in the way (cliques at meets).

But to Justin's original question:

Yes. And it looking at it from another point of view; the motives of the person behind the modification. If the person buys Subway rings and is unaware of what they are and the story behind then, then it's wrong. But if the person loves the idea behind them and wants to emulate that feel then why not? If a person is motivated by the buying a Rota Grids because he loves the look of them, then maybe it's wrong. But if he is buying Rota Grids because he loves the look of them AND he loves TE37s, knows everything about how they are made and aspires to own a set of TE37s in the future, then how could that be considered wrong? And are they really taking away from the scene? Or inspired to keep going?

Paul.S
04-11-10, 09:30 AM
This place needs a whole lot more people like you Benson.

I'll never forget that moment you politely offered me a Tim Tam at the Homebush meet last year, and was genuinely interested in speaking to me about my car.

Thanks man.

uknowsergio
04-11-10, 09:37 AM
My 2cents,

The forum isnít broken so to speak its just lost its way.
No offense to the photographers just an observation. Whatís the difference living behind the computer or lenses, You still cut yourself off from the people around you?
The main problem is the general notion of an EOMM is to drive there with your small group or individually. This is the main reason some EOMM have been somewhat anti-social.

Why?

Because as a whole we are car enthusiast, we like Ďcarsí we donít like parking and looking at statues. Having cars parked for a long period of time, promotes standoff/show off personalities within the community. I know Iíve been one of those people, I think we all have at some point.

How can we fix it?

Some people will hate me for saying this, but what is wrong with cruises?
Honestly while I had my BMW E30 Cabrio & M3 we had driven to Bathurst, Gosford, Gong, Kangaroo Valley, J Caves, Hunter valley, Canberra etc. You meet up in the morning, new or old members will introduce yourself, in an awkward way. Along the drive a funny things happen, you donít care who people are on the forum you just enjoy the company of people & cars. Like Iíve gone to some drives with some forum members I couldnít stand (eg. Caferacer on DTMpower), but by the end of the cruise I hated him less and understood his comments on the forum etc.
With new members, by the end of it a bit more relaxed and approachable. Itís a win win.

Before anyone says cops, For the 3 years I was an active Ďdriverí not Ďuserí on the European forum we never had a problem with cops even @ Bathurst with my M3 screaming up and down the mountain.

And before anyone says anything about the resent cafe meets, haven't gone. But how did you all get there? I'm guessing Individually?
What wrong meeting like @ JDmyard for example and driving to Balmoral, Sergio lives there now and there's nothing by parking somedays, and you have water, fish&chips, sun, what else could you want?

Other ways we can improve as some people mentioned already:

Tech Day/Nights/Threads Ė So stupid questions, and beliefs can be asked and answered without the mis-communication of keyboard warriors.
Social SkidPan/Track Days -With the more experienced drivers instructing the new ones?

My random 2cents, it might sound mean to the forum but its my 2cents.

Claudio

ido09s
04-11-10, 09:44 AM
There are just as many (if not more) elitist and standoffish groups of people on this forum. TLM crew, homebush crew etc.

Sad, real sad, and this is but another reason the car scene has gone to shite.... unless your one of the homies then your a nobody. What ever happened to just being another friendly person who was into cars. This isnt a JDMST problem, this is a problem with society these days


Ive never experienced this at an EOMM, but if that is true, thats definatley not on! We are all car enthusiests, we all share similar likes.....I guess to some people its all a competition?

I have experienced it at the 2 EOMM's i have been to. I wanderd around a meetup with Andrea at Fox Studios and i had not 1 stranger come up and say hi. Same with the meet out at Hoxton Park a few months ago. The only peple that spoke to me were those i have known for years through FFF :D oh and several others i have met through BMU

Why didnt I say hello, because i was brought up with manners and its rude to interupt someone having a convesation

The clincher for me that shows just how divided this forums is is the fact that after every meet the same cars show up in the photo thread and the same dudes fap off over the pics time after time. And you know what, its always the ones that have offset and moar low that appear.

I swear one meet i am going to bring a tyre lever along and pop some tyres off the bead :D


the latest craze, 'hellaflush', really annoys me too.
if you dont have negative offsets, your not 'stanced'. and its the way the whole JDM scene is moving ! (im not one to talk with 9" +5, 10' +5 wheels on a stock bodies z32)
you get laughed at etc, if you're too high, or your offsets weak! and people push it, to be truelly JDM you need you lip, and mass offset/camber. its just not the case!

Again, this is society in general. What i dont get is how someone can consider this a movement lol all it is is an offset lol


I just spent a good 40 minutes typing an essay of a reply for this thread, But realised its not worth it, because to 99.9% of anyone who reads it, my opinion would be meaningless.

Refer to my first comment above. Quite sad to say the least


I must admit most of the posts here have been quite saddening and disheartening. If we're all about trying to build up a community, then it seems to be a community of hate and distrust.

If everyone is thinking that J-Type is elitist then i must point out that JDMST is no different for non-JDMST people. It's especially hard for new members. It seems that new members must work especially hard to get in nowadays, to break down the social barriers that stand in the way (cliques at meets).

The truth hurts dude and its good that Justin has asked for opinions. Hopefully it will make a lot of people take a look at themselves and realise they arent as 'hard' as they think they are lol

Now, what the hell are these subway rings? Are these those things that people hang off their TOW HOOKS lol

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 09:46 AM
Pull your head in, read the thread again and have a think about it.
Nice attitude but again I think you have it ALL wrong.


Is J-Type a private forum? Yes
Have people tried to keep is a secret? Yes
Did J-Type poach the best members from JDMST? By your own admissions, yes
Would this be classed as elitist? Yes
Is this contradictory to what has been stated as the vision for JDMST as a community? Yes

I'm a member on Jtype but maybe only because Van felt obligated to let me on board. Do I like the idea of Jtype? NO but who am I to stop Van (or anyone else) from creating a private forum?

Sure Van invited select members from JDMST to join his forum. Sure Jtype might be elitist, just like our secret room is. Do I see anything wrong with any of this? Not at all.

Surely you can understand WHY Jtype started (and to a degree why the secret room started). JDMST was once a small clicky forum of mates, it just got too big. Why would anyone want to talk about their father dying from cancer in front of thousands of people they don't know?

Van left JDMST as a moderator due to his frustrations with where JDMST was going (ie: bigger and bigger) but at some point he came back and I was in no position to say no to him as I think he does a great job around here as a mod. I've asked select people with big hearts to be mods and more than a few of them have said no. Being a mod is a shit job, full stop.

Can I ask you Rock: Do you really think you could be friends with all 10,000 members of JDMST? With all the young kids at the meets (who I think are more shy than stand-off-ish as you put it). You're basing so much on the past and I've had this conversation with everyone at Jtype before, so many times.

In the end of the day what was once great about JDMST to you is not here any more, but you still have a tight circle of mates you met through here ages ago (be happy about that, I am). I do too and so do many others and new circles of friends are forming. The Lowdown, Downshift, It's all about Stance... can't you see that?

I can try to stop these guys from "poaching" JDMST's forum members but who am I to try and stop them?! The FACT is that JDMST poached members of other forums too. Ozhonda, SAU, Silvia, Toymods. Can't you see that?! If Wynode from OzHonda called me up to tell me to stop JDMST, and stop poaching his members I'd just laugh in his face.

In my opinion you're just getting old and bitter, jaded. Your obviously upset about JDMST/the world not being as small/great as it used to be.

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 10:03 AM
How about we all agree to disagree, delete the thread, I'll go back to being me and you guys go back to being you. Sound good?

Delete the thread? Why, because so many members I respect have taken the time to come out give their honest constructive opinions? Or because you've tried again and again to point the finger, blame and de-rail the JDMST moderators and maybe you've only just realised you're not 100% right? That over 3600 people have read the thread so far and they can read your negative posts and pass silent judgement on you?

See you've been trying so hard to get your chip off your shoulder but maybe it's YOU who should go back and read all the posts, especially by long standing members. Who have shed as much light in their posts as you did in your first post. For me, it's been GOLD reading some of these threads. They're arming me with ideas.

Realise I'm only having a go at you because you're having a go at me Rock. You're not the only one having a go at me too. As the founder of this place I cop it hard sometimes (it's not just this forum too, it's other forums I run).

Yes I make mistakes (I'm only human). I'm not arguing against that at all but I'm always learning and re-assessing. In this case, what you're upset about is beyond my control as I'm no one to stop anyone from starting a new forum and inviting JDMST members to join it.

llama_au
04-11-10, 10:11 AM
I like the fact you've opened this discussion.

But what is possibly wrong with this forum in the opinions of some is something that can't be fixed. It's a change in the scene as a whole. Put up with it, adapt or leave it are the options.

sxg01d
04-11-10, 10:11 AM
*waits for someone to chime in and post "HATERS R GONNA HATE.gif"*

i agree with this...

pr1nce
04-11-10, 10:26 AM
edit: whoops

Andy Wana
04-11-10, 10:34 AM
Next EOMM, I am gonna wear this:

http://imabean.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/hi-my-name-is.jpg

And do this to other members/strangers (and hopefully they'll do the same in return):

http://www.gforceseattle.com/images/sayhi.png

Lay off the egos, stereotyping, attitude (no one's here to win a popularity contest) ...

http://www.thedatingrulebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/smile.jpg

Relax. Rinse. Repeat. You'd be amazed at the positive changes these simple offline things will bring to JDMST when we meet online later.

pr1nce
04-11-10, 10:35 AM
Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture? Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?

Discuss!

This is my story. I like cars. But I love music. I don't particpate in music forums because I get into too many arguments because music lovers are so strongly opinionated we just want to strangle each other.

Previouly, I was a member on Toymods. A good mate of mine sent me a few links to JDMST. I lurked until a decision was made to be a member of the forum to even view the General Automotive Discussion threads. I liked it back then. Heads knew what was up.

Without a doubt the JDMST look has exploded into the mainstream, the older Gods bow their head in shame, saying "we were up on it first!" Believe me I see this expression a lot in music heads.

What's good about a forum like this, is that it opens up a can of worms to the uneducated. It gives those new fish a new direction to swim in. Sometimes you gotta put those sunglasses on and deal with it.

In short, I do believe the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting is killing real car culture. It ruins music culture too. There will always be people faking the funk.

I think my only advice is, to let the forum die a little. The older heads will probably stick around. And the new fish that have car culture ingrained in them will stick around and contribute.

And maybe delete the classifieds.

I gotta laugh too, I don't contribute anything to this forum.

Rad
04-11-10, 10:52 AM
Next EOMM, I am gonna wear this:
http://imabean.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/hi-my-name-is.jpg


This actually isn't such a bad idea, perhaps even with a forum username underneath. I think it makes people a bit more approachable.

bionikal
04-11-10, 10:55 AM
lol.

I love how everyone has ME syndrome and wants to post up massive "my story" posts. This isn't fucking show and tell.

I stopped coming here when it became Honduhstyletuning and people creamed their jeans at an overpriced set of extractors.

The whole forum just became a massive brand war, he who had the biggest brands got the most recognition.. that or had the stupidest Jap shit. What the fuck subway hanging rings? or that stupid piece of fucking rope.. took me a good 2 weeks to work out what the fuck a $400 piece of rope was used for. I've absailed with cheaper rope.

Basically this place just became a massive joke as msot of the members were too involved in the massive circle jerk to contribute anything of worth.

re the EOMMs, I went to one of the first and had a blast, good bunch of guys, sat around and talked cars. Went to a few after that and the same thing - skip forward 12 months and I make an appearance, everyone just sits around like a bunch of stuck up kents, if you dont have a typeR with fucknowswhat front lip you obviously didn't belong. Same shit as the offset brandwhore crowd. Its a giant fucking joke, want evidence? Look at some of the rims being sold here 17x7 + 22...

Cliffnotes - place is a massive circle jerk, nobody gives a toss about performance its all about your shopping list and offset. Its like seeing the hottset skirt in the universe on the nicest set of legs mankind has ever seen... nobody gives a shit that its masking an absolute hermaphrodite.. as long as its got a matching channel bag and comes in sick offsets.

Paoooul
04-11-10, 10:56 AM
Pretty sad that the internet (or maybe just the community's attitude) has destroyed real life social skills to the point where adult and teen people need to wear kindergarten-esque name tags to be able to introduce themselves.

EDIT: In saying that I'm not saying it's a bad idea, considering the "back turned" attitude of some people at EOMM's. Would be cool to know who isn't a dick and wants to say hi. I'm just saying it's pretty dismal it seems to be coming to that.

Gorilla
04-11-10, 10:58 AM
I like the fact you've opened this discussion.

But what is possibly wrong with this forum in the opinions of some is something that can't be fixed. It's a change in the scene as a whole. Put up with it, adapt or leave it are the options.

I agree with this post. I don't see anything wrong with the forum. Just a change how it first started out. It's now evolved with young fresh users.

Brad if I saw u at a meet I wouldn't say hi either u ugly mofo (jk mate I think last time i saw u was at st George leagues lol)

Edit: Bionikal, bit hypocritical to write that first paragraph then write the followin paragraphs wanking on about how shit the forum and it's community is....why even login? Why even read? Why even respond??

Trolls Royce
04-11-10, 11:00 AM
I give up. I shared an opinion, which others agreed with. I get singled out twice and my opinion is thrown back in my face, and I get told that it's not an opinion, and I've got a chip on my shoulder.

Thanks Justin.

-EGA.2.90-
04-11-10, 11:10 AM
Opinion may be justified and warranted, but it may be the manner in which it is promoted that is the issue..

best guy
04-11-10, 11:11 AM
I totally agree with everything Rock has said and think it's hilarious that seemigly high end members in this thread are trying to promote oneness and liberation, equality amongst the community while at the same time attempting to justify the existence of both a section of this forum and another complete forum that segregates members based upon thier percieved individual traits in the eyes of an apparent privledged few.

ido09s
04-11-10, 11:15 AM
Brad if I saw u at a meet I wouldn't say hi either u ugly mofo (jk mate I think last time i saw u was at st George leagues lol)

bah, thats the pot calling the kettle BLACK isnt it lol :D:D:D I couldnt remember the last time i saw you. Wouldnt have been St George leagues though as i havent been there in about 20 years.

I do know though that i met everyone from the FFF's at P6 :D Once again, another example of when the car scene was decent and people didnt have ego's and were approachable. The days of FFF's rocked. I will never forget the look on peoples faces when Andrea and Alisa rocked up to P6 driving the R100 and i was with Marty in the S15 :D

And i think the cruise idea is a good one. I think it creates an ice breaker and gives someone something to talk to someone about.

Mitchee
04-11-10, 11:18 AM
I totally agree with everything Rock has said and think it's hilarious that seemigly high end members in this thread are trying to promote oneness and liberation, equality amongst the community while at the same time attempting to justify the existence of both a section of this forum and another complete forum that segregates members based upon thier percieved individual traits in the eyes of an apparent privledged few.

I fail to see how that is any different to the members on here that also choose to make posts on Toymods/Nissan Silvia/SAU/OzHonda/PerformanceForums/Stance etc.

marvis
04-11-10, 11:20 AM
JDMST is full of elitists. More than anything else, everyone judges the absolute fuck out of you on here.

JDMST doesn't even allow the promotion of regular hard driving.




Americans have proved fakes can mesh with genuines.

They just don't do it well.


i got over jdmst, it became a shit place to be, when i first joined it was awesome so many cool helpful people.. now its all about the latest fad car and replica font lips and sportmaxxes.. and shame on JDMYARD for selling sportmaxxes and fake shit.

This. Everyone is trying to be USDM FADLACE on here... There isn't much on here that is truly JDM styled.


I also think policing (at least in NSW?) changes have killed a lot of the scene, with such harsh repercussions for power mods these days its hard to justify wasting money, just to get reamed.

Because power means everything.

Andy Wana
04-11-10, 11:22 AM
Pretty sad that the internet (or maybe just the community's attitude) has destroyed real life social skills to the point where adult and teen people need to wear kindergarten-esque name tags to be able to introduce themselves.

EDIT: In saying that I'm not saying it's a bad idea, considering the "back turned" attitude of some people at EOMM's. Would be cool to know who isn't a dick and wants to say hi. I'm just saying it's pretty dismal it seems to be coming to that.

Dismal as it may seem, it's better than doing nothing and standing against the wall talking amongst your own cliques.
We gotta start somewhere right? =)

Gorilla
04-11-10, 11:22 AM
bah, thats the pot calling the kettle BLACK isnt it lol
Lol haha

I think I can see where Rock is going, I guess it's just reading differently to some?

anth
04-11-10, 11:23 AM
the latest craze, 'hellaflush', really annoys me too.

If it annoys you so much why did you bolt on a set of borrowed wide rims with stretched tyres to your engine-less car, slam it to the ground, then post up pictures of it on multiple forums looking for compliments? Hard parking at its finest, you're a part of it whether you like it or not, you can't have it both ways. Not trying to start shit here, don't take it the wrong way.

Going back on topic, this thread is gold, lots of great posts.

-EGA.2.90-
04-11-10, 11:23 AM
.

The whole forum just became a massive brand war, he who had the biggest brands got the most recognition..

This , I hate this! There is actually some quite good local shops who make good quality gear, but people still insist on paying big $$ for a part that might not fit aswell or perform as good as the locally made custom fab'd item, but they still buy the gap gear because it has hks or arc or something stamped on it..

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 11:24 AM
Spot on. I just don't get why all the people who hate on JDMST bother to log in and waste their time in here complaining. If it's got everything to do with how great they once remember JDMST to be, and how it's all gone and nothing like that now, well then that's life.

In regards to meets. I for one am glad we still have them! I think it's one thing we've got going that other forums lack. For 5 years we've pretty much kept it up. There's ALWAYS going to be some guy who didn't get to meet anyone at a meet, felt like everyone at the meet was snobbing him off. That no-one went out of their way to come up to him and say hello. Hey that's not JDMST! That's life too! There's bound to be a few clicky circles, it's like high school out there and as I've said a million times on this forum over the years. It's 100% up to each individual to use their communication skills to get a conversation going with a total stranger.

I can't see how it's mine or anyone else's responsibility to ensure everyone at a meet has a great time.

PS: I'm obviously back on the horse (yes I fell off it to play with bikes and a VW Golf forum somewhere along the line). I've gone through some posts in this thread a few times already. As expected this thread has been absolutely awesome. I'm more excited about JDMST than I've been in a long time, so much so I'm haunting this thread and smashing the refresh button!!!

I've started to put a list together of some proposed changes. A "to-do" list of sorts.

Rock - you've singled out a few people in this thread too. Now you know what it feels like. As I've said before, your initial post was juicy and once I've read a few times now but everything you've written after that (now that I truly know that it's Jtype that has upset you) is completely wrong. You have my number, call if you want to discuss.

Many well thought out posts in here are arming me with direction and ideas. A survey of sorts and it's all there for me and the mod team to now decipher and decide on what to do with it.

Cappuccino
04-11-10, 11:24 AM
JDMST is full of elitists. More than anything else, everyone judges the absolute fuck out of you on here. I don't know whether that is what the car scene is like down south but up here in Brisbane we all get along and don't act pretentious over menial things. I just recently got banned so I am trying to avoid really being a dick, and believe me it is a hard task. Sick of hearing everyones pussy QQ's about stupid things. "Oh wtf offset is to much can't drive your car in anger". JDMST doesn't even allow the promotion of regular hard driving, so how would you fucking know if someone drives in anger or not. Who cares if someone hardparks, or someone tracks their car every weekend, or someone street drifts once a week. Everyone has their choices. Whinging about fake wheels is like crying over spilt milk, I was once an avid hater of fakes but now I couldnt give two shits. If the car looks good, it looks good.


Totally agree and you know what I think this how fatlace, hellaflash & USDM movement has changed JDMST.

I have been part of JDMST for a while now. Found it through a friend who found a link about Just Cars being crap. I joined up as it seemed to a more mature audience with people who have been around the car scene for a very long time. I after growing up around Turbo Nissans and owning a Cappuccino I was always into the JDM style of things. I have met a lot of good people and have formed a lot of great friendships and also thanks to JDMST I have actually been out there driving my car hard on the track etc as Narada uses JDMST to post up about CC events.

Recently though there has been a lot of trolls joining up with I tend to ignore them personally I don't have to much time to post on here since it is actually banned at work (currently internet tethering from my mobile) I try and contribute where I can! I do still go to the meets and the best ones have been the smallest or over at Fox having dinner before being away from the cars. Last meet at KKs was great got to meet some new people I remember chatting to a VR6 owner (sorry man forgot your name :( ) for a good hour just talking about cars etc. I try to contribute & help when I can.

Also how the f**k did this go from how to help JDMST to Jtype are a bunch of elitists? For your information we are not and its actually been around a lot longer then anyone here would even realizes the only reason why people know about its because of the red sticker we have if it wasn't for that no one would know we even exist. As most of us when given a chance still contribute to here and will continue to do so. As both forums are very very different.

How to fix it??? No idea! I enjoy the meets I enjoy seeing what people have done and I think if people went to the basics of why we joint in the first place. I am sure no one joined to bring people down about what they drive or what they have. Us as car enthusiasts need to be open minded, we can lead people in the right direction nicely and the right dialog which would make them feel part of a community. However there are some members not matter how hard you try to help them they just fail I guess you can't do much about bad genes.

If you joined JDMST to be an etlists douchbag and joined to bag people out I suggest you GTFO and go join boostcruising.

Paoooul
04-11-10, 11:25 AM
Dismal as it may seem, it's better than doing nothing and standing against the wall talking amongst your own cliques.
We gotta start somewhere right? =)

Yeah for sure, that was what I tried to say in my edit. It would definitely be beneficial and potentially change the attitude of a lot of people out there.

Powizzle
04-11-10, 11:25 AM
My 2cents,

The forum isnít broken so to speak its just lost its way.
No offense to the photographers just an observation. Whatís the difference living behind the computer or lenses, You still cut yourself off from the people around you?
The main problem is the general notion of an EOMM is to drive there with your small group or individually. This is the main reason some EOMM have been somewhat anti-social.

Why?

Because as a whole we are car enthusiast, we like Ďcarsí we donít like parking and looking at statues. Having cars parked for a long period of time, promotes standoff/show off personalities within the community. I know Iíve been one of those people, I think we all have at some point.

How can we fix it?

Some people will hate me for saying this, but what is wrong with cruises?
Honestly while I had my BMW E30 Cabrio & M3 we had driven to Bathurst, Gosford, Gong, Kangaroo Valley, J Caves, Hunter valley, Canberra etc. You meet up in the morning, new or old members will introduce yourself, in an awkward way. Along the drive a funny things happen, you donít care who people are on the forum you just enjoy the company of people & cars. Like Iíve gone to some drives with some forum members I couldnít stand (eg. Caferacer on DTMpower), but by the end of the cruise I hated him less and understood his comments on the forum etc.
With new members, by the end of it a bit more relaxed and approachable. Itís a win win.

Before anyone says cops, For the 3 years I was an active Ďdriverí not Ďuserí on the European forum we never had a problem with cops even @ Bathurst with my M3 screaming up and down the mountain.

And before anyone says anything about the resent cafe meets, haven't gone. But how did you all get there? I'm guessing Individually?
What wrong meeting like @ JDmyard for example and driving to Balmoral, Sergio lives there now and there's nothing by parking somedays, and you have water, fish&chips, sun, what else could you want?

Other ways we can improve as some people mentioned already:

Tech Day/Nights/Threads Ė So stupid questions, and beliefs can be asked and answered without the mis-communication of keyboard warriors.
Social SkidPan/Track Days -With the more experienced drivers instructing the new ones?

My random 2cents, it might sound mean to the forum but its my 2cents.

Claudio

I'm down for a good drive! There haven't been that many cruises lately

ido09s
04-11-10, 11:26 AM
I fail to see how that is any different to the members on here that also choose to make posts on Toymods/Nissan Silvia/SAU/OzHonda/PerformanceForums/Stance etc.

Did you not miss the part where it was said that these forums/parts of forums are invite only and are locked away from the general user.... anyone can join any and all of those forums you mentioned without being told that you are not worthy to join our special forum...

Marvis - i think you may have mis understood what danielb was getting at. I think he meant that people are to scared to modify engines etc so it has become a lot easier to simply modify a car looks

deez
04-11-10, 11:27 AM
Haven't posted on or looked at JDMST for the last couple of years, often for extended periods of time. No need for me to delve into the reasons why, it's irrelevant. But I will say that it's not difficult to be friendly and open to others online and offline. Or at the very least, make an effort to. Cut the bullshit and the sarcasm and grow a brain, treat others the way you'd like to be treated. I believe they are clearly stated in the 'read this first' thread.

I've been to EOMMs and haven't had any issues striking up conversations with people I didn't know, if they appeared to be friendly and approachable too. But I've been finding less and less of this.

More often than not people will be in their own little groups and it's only human to be cliquey, it's part of just hanging in our own comfort zone. We used to have name tags at a few meets in the past, and I agree with Andy that it's probably a good idea to bring them back. For one, it'll get people to be a bit more curious about those they haven't met before, and it'll get people talking and interacting a bit more outside of the usual cliques.

My 2 cents.

best guy
04-11-10, 11:28 AM
I fail to see how that is any different to the members on here that also choose to make posts on Toymods/Nissan Silvia/SAU/OzHonda/PerformanceForums/Stance etc.

because the fact that the section and forum in question is an invite-only elitist boys club drawing directly from JDMST as a training-ground completely undermines the claim by many that they wish the scene, and more specifically this community, was less segregated and stand-offish

Cappuccino
04-11-10, 11:30 AM
Did you not miss the part where it was said that these forums/parts of forums are invite only and are locked away from the general user.... anyone can join any and all of those forums you mentioned without being told that you are not worthy to join our special forum...

And you obviously know what this private forum is about???

Its no different to a small group of friends creating there own private place to discuss personally things as oppose to sending out sms's or email.

We just happened to all be friends here first.

Mr Happ
04-11-10, 11:36 AM
bah! jtype is only good for its tech forum. Where else can i learn how to tune a shimano ultegra rear derailleur?

ido09s
04-11-10, 11:38 AM
I have no idea mate and to be honest if you want to bicker behind closed doors thats your problem. I really dont care for being a part of it, was more pointing out to Mitchee that his comparison was not a good one given the invite only nature of certain parts of this forum versus the open invite to all of the forums he mentioned

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 11:39 AM
Opinion may be justified and warranted, but it may be the manner in which it is promoted that is the issue..
100%.


I totally agree with everything Rock has said and think it's hilarious that seemigly high end members in this thread are trying to promote oneness and liberation, equality amongst the community while at the same time attempting to justify the existence of both a section of this forum and another complete forum that segregates members based upon thier percieved individual traits in the eyes of an apparent privledged few.


Jtype. It's got nothing much to do with JDMST except that the members there are also members here. If I had to define what Jtype is it would go something like this:
JTYPE: A group of mates in real life who use forum software to communicate with each other.

Now that the Secret Room on JDMST is completely out in the open I'd like to talk about it.

The JDMST Secret Room
The JDMST Secret Room is a room on the forum that only select people can see. It's been around since 2006.

It has 40 or so members/friends who have been there from the start and in some ways it's been there for me to get these mates to feel special on my new car forum, to hang around and hopefully contribute and help out.

In 2007 when JDMST started growing we brought up the idea of closing the secret room, no one really cared either way so it stayed open.

Stats:
- Since 2006 there have only been 204 threads in the Secret Room. IE: It's very dead in there. Why? Maybe because everyone in it feels deep down that it's seen as elitist but hey, they were thrown in there and so far, no one has expressed that they would rather not be in there.

I mentioned a second ago about making a list of future changes. On the very top of that list is deleting the secret room as it no longer serves it's purpose on JDMST and the members in it have nothing at all to lose from it's deletion as it's very rarely used (the members in there now use phones, SMS, MSN, Facebook and email instead).

As of end of play today the Secret Room will be shut down (we're just saying our final goodbyes in there atm!).

It's all very timely with the new VBulletin forum and all. I'm staying positive and at the moment I have a new found energy for JDMST which I intend to harness and maximise for as long as I can.

-EGA.2.90-
04-11-10, 11:39 AM
Is j-type that red folded sticker that ive seen on some cars and people kept wanting one but got told no they couldn't have it, or they're not for sale? Andy wana has it in his sig or avatar or something I think..

deez
04-11-10, 11:41 AM
because the fact that the section and forum in question is an invite-only elitist boys club drawing directly from JDMST as a training-ground completely undermines the claim by many that they wish the scene, and more specifically this community, was less segregated and stand-offish

I don't feel that a so called 'invite-only elitist boys club' has anything to do with the community or the scene being segregated or stand-offish. I'd go on record to say that the guys in question are some of the nicest, friendliest people I know. It's about having a positive attitude, an open mind for different tastes/styles, and the ones you'd see at meets walking around chatting with people and interacting with different groups would be these guys.

Yes, I am part of this private forum and I'm grateful to be because the friendships I've formed there will be with me for life.

clutch-monkey
04-11-10, 11:43 AM
meh, still better than boostcruising, which is all i care about regarding meets etc
still a 'safe' place to post your car.
yeah there's more ego's and elitist's (oh hey marvis!) but it's not that bad.

Andy Wana
04-11-10, 11:47 AM
Is j-type that red folded sticker that is in cars and people kept wanting one but got told no they couldn't have it or not for sale? Andy wana has it in his sig or avatar or something I think..

http://jtype.net/j/jtype.png

This one? =)

It's just a sticker that was produced amongst friends. Nothing more.
We don't talk much about cars over there, just so you know.

I still post my build thread here.
I still talk cars here.
I still talk Nissan Cubes here.
I still organise Cube meets here.
I still go to EOMMs.
I still try to talk to strangers here.
I still ask technical questions here.
I still look at car pictures here.

Wink
04-11-10, 11:50 AM
J taipu

so yes it is

deez
04-11-10, 11:53 AM
We don't talk much about cars over there, just so you know.


They're a bunch of lycra wearing cyclists talking about padded shorts and stuff. Sure you want in on that? :lol:

Rad
04-11-10, 11:53 AM
The JDMST Secret Room


To be honest, this is a futile topic. I didn't even know a "secret room" existed and quite frankly it doesn't even bother me, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not having access to it.. I don't think it really should be labelled "elitist", in a sense it's pretty much like an "admin only" forum. In conclusion, less bickering over it and move onto the real topic at hand.

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 11:54 AM
Spot on deez. I think the stand-off-ish people at JDMST meets might just have bad communication skills and small comfort zones. You've got to be a confident guy/gal to walk up to a complete stranger and say G'day. I don't rock up to any place be it a pub, city, country and expect people to go out of their way to say G'day to me... OK, maybe I expect at least a little bit of service at a restaurant, but hey they're paid to serve me!

I call it innocence. I think some of you guys are making out these more silent groups of kids at JDMST meets to be something they are not (hard kents or whatever). I reckon they are just shy.

Iron Chef
04-11-10, 11:57 AM
And here I was, about to put a subway ring on the Cube....(trust me, it WILL be scraping the ground! lol)

Wink
04-11-10, 11:59 AM
If JDMST is your 'main' car forum, then you have a problem.
If you want talk technical/specifics about your cars, people should be hanging out more on forums specific to their make/model. Want to ask a Skyline question? Why bother asking it on JDMST when you can ask on SAU?
People complaining about technical knowledge being non-existent on JDMST - who cares. You're asking in the wrong place anyway.

JDMST is a good secondary forum for you to check out other makes/models that are out there, and talk about stuff non-car related.

ido09s
04-11-10, 11:59 AM
what the hell are these rings? lol

Babalouie
04-11-10, 12:02 PM
Why is everyone so shy? :).

I mean is it really that hard to walk up to a bunch of guys having a conversation and say "G'day I'm So and so and thats my Silvia over there.".

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 12:02 PM
If JDMST is your 'main' car forum, then you have a problem.
If you want talk technical/specifics about your cars, people should be hanging out more on forums specific to their make/model. Want to ask a Skyline question? Why bother asking it on JDMST when you can ask on SAU?
People complaining about technical knowledge being non-existent on JDMST - who cares. You're asking in the wrong place anyway.

JDMST is a good secondary forum for you to check out other makes/models that are out there, and talk about stuff non-car related.

100% spot on! Removing Manufacturers section entirely is on the list for discussion. Why would a Honda owner need to hang out in the Honda room on JDMST when there's OzHonda? It's beyond me.

-EGA.2.90-
04-11-10, 12:02 PM
Yes Andy that's the one, I just remember a young enthusiastic member asking where to get one and got an abrupt reply 'they're not for sale'. I can't remember but I think it was from the founder of said group!?!?!

A nice "sorry mate, it's a little thing between friends that we have going on" I'm sure wouldve done the job much better. ;)


Anyways back on topic , enough about the floppy sticker guys

Wink
04-11-10, 12:03 PM
Why is everyone so shy? :).

I mean is it really that hard to walk up to a bunch of guys having a conversation and say "G'day I'm So and so and thats my Silvia over there.".

Ok, but I need 2 Long Islands in me and you gotta be my wingman bro.

Justin Fox
04-11-10, 12:03 PM
I mean is it really that hard to walk up to a bunch of guys having a conversation and say "G'day I'm So and so and thats my Silvia over there.".

But I can see that it might be for these kids Babs. The way some of them write, all that crap SMS like talk, it's beyond me they can speak at all let alone walk up to someone and say G'day!

Stivo
04-11-10, 12:03 PM
Spot on deez. I think the stand-off-ish people at JDMST meets might just have bad communication skills and small comfort zones. You've got to be a confident guy/gal to walk up to a complete stranger and say G'day. I don't rock up to any place be it a pub, city, country and expect people to go out of their way to say G'day to me... OK, maybe I expect at least a little bit of service at a restaurant, but hey they're paid to serve me!

I call it innocence. I think some of you guys are making out these more silent groups of kids at JDMST meets to be something they are not (hard kents or whatever). I reckon they are just shy.

+1. The fact remains is that JDMST has a massive member base and it is virtually impossible for every member to get to know each other personally. People are more inclined to hang out with their friends at meets, especially if they don't know anyone else. It's just human nature. Newbies may see this as intimidating because they think everyone is being cliquey or what not, but it's quite the opposite. Most people are naturally introverts and if you want those type of people to get to know each other there needs to be a concerted effort by both parties to do so.

I think someone earlier mentioned the nametag idea at EOMM's. I think that's a fantastic idea and could probably help alleviate some of the 'intimidating' factor of the meets. It would also help point out those that aren't on the forums and just come along to do dirty harry's.

Andy Wana
04-11-10, 12:04 PM
If JDMST is your 'main' car forum, then you have a problem.
If you want talk technical/specifics about your cars, people should be hanging out more on forums specific to their make/model. Want to ask a Skyline question? Why bother asking it on JDMST when you can ask on SAU?
People complaining about technical knowledge being non-existent on JDMST - who cares. You're asking in the wrong place anyway.

JDMST is a good secondary forum for you to check out other makes/models that are out there, and talk about stuff non-car related.

I have to ask here, we have a lot of Cube owners now.
There are no dedicated Z11 Cube forums in OZ (yet), brah.
The one in UK are full of chavs who are more interested in subs/bling wheels/neons, cuz. =)

Your last sentence is interesting though, I think the ones who are bitter with JDMST are the ones that want this place to be their primary hangout. The place where they talk JDM car related stuff all day.

munchhunch
04-11-10, 12:06 PM
I have had first hand experience when I call and ask mates if they are going to JDMST organised meets. There reply will be are the old school Jdm guys going to be there. It seems like the old guys aren't very welcomig of new guys. (some are and some really aren't)

It is just life I guess.

Meets are generally very good. This is why we are trying to get things such as Makan meets running as it is an enthusiast related event but the focus is more on the social aspect and a seconds shared love for food. No matter how large the forum is there will always be a close netork of people.

I personally have met the majority of my mates through the forums as I moved back to Australi 2.5 years ago, the people I speak to regularly seem to actually be very opening and willing to share knowledge. That's just me though.

Iron Chef
04-11-10, 12:15 PM
I have to ask here, we have a lot of Cube owners now.
There are no dedicated Z11 Cube forums in OZ (yet), brah.


You're not looking hard enough ;) http://www.cubism.net.au/

VTECMACHINE
04-11-10, 12:26 PM
I've had some people show me and tell me what goes on in that red sticker club. Alot of it is bitching about people.

Anyways, Forum needs more love. Can we have a huge turn out for the annual JDMST XMAS BBQ pls?

Cappuccino
04-11-10, 12:27 PM
Yes Andy that's the one, I just remember a young enthusiastic member asking where to get one and got an abrupt reply 'they're not for sale'. I can't remember but I think it was from the founder of said group!?!?!

A nice "sorry mate, it's a little thing between friends that we have going on" I'm sure wouldve done the job much better. ;)


Anyways back on topic , enough about the floppy sticker guys


Confusing people is just so much more fun =p especially when everyone wanted to know what it was about.


I have no idea mate and to be honest if you want to bicker behind closed doors thats your problem.

Obviously you have no idea what its about. We actually don't bicker about JDMST at all maybe try and work out ways to improve? but that's about it.

Sorry for I seem frustrated but when people start talking about something that is close to my heart and have no idea what it is I get the shits! :)

Jtype to me is a close group of friends who I consider a lot as family (like I do with a lot of my close friends) that may seem odd to people but I never had any extended family that I speak to in Aus so my close friends are my family so to speak. Hence the frustration.


Annnnyyyywwaaay back on topic!

Cappuccino
04-11-10, 12:31 PM
I've had some people show me and tell me what goes on in that red sticker club. Alot of it is bitching about people.


Of course you would know Ricky???

DreadAngel
04-11-10, 12:36 PM
To be honest, this is a futile topic. I didn't even know a "secret room" existed and quite frankly it doesn't even bother me, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not having access to it.. I don't think it really should be labelled "elitist", in a sense it's pretty much like an "admin only" forum. In conclusion, less bickering over it and move onto the real topic at hand.

Ditto, didn't even realise it even existed... And hey didn't bother me when I signed up and it doesn't bother me now that I know of its existence =|

And to touch on the original topic, almost everyone here I think has their own perception what a certain styling contains or involves. Based on their ideas of what it is they try to recreate it on their car. Now be it Bippu, Low Rider, JDM, USDM, Hellaflush, etc etc etc etc etc... Some of them are pretty clear cut as to what they are, plenty of examples to follow off so you too can easily join their movement :) Fair enough...

NOW for Japanese styling, if you're idea of JDM look involves carbon/carbon vinyl covered bonnet, boot and spoiler matched on a bright coloured body (Red, Yellow, White, etc) sitting on a set of perfectly sized (ie 1 or 2 inch up on standard) LIGHT Rays or Enkei or Works or Weds or SSR or etc etc then you've to me match my initial idea of what a JDM look is. Honestly I thought JDM look was just to make the car look "racey"?

Take a trip over there though, the Japanese car owners over there gave me a shock, I mean sure you had your iconic Wakaba leaf (Though they actually use it for their L plate rather than some fancy look at me sticker), you had what I thought was JDM styled cars but there are heaps of cars there you guys would associate with as show cars, riceboxes, OMFG what the hell is that (Thinking super custom kit on a small hatch to make it into a medium coupe =|). One funny thing when I last visited, I got to see their interpretation of what USDM and AUDM (Probably not news to those that bother to look beyond simple styling and more depth to the culture of it all).

All in all, what I'm saying is nobody has the "RIGHT" idea about some of the styling cues since some of it is mismatched or misconceptions put together then blown up to "fit" and fed to the would be die-hard fan boys to make their interpretation and re-transmit it. So by the time it gets to you, its wasn't 100% correct to begin with ;)

AJ-80
04-11-10, 12:38 PM
what the hell are these rings? lol

I wanna know as well.

Maybe put one on my XR6

7Hazi
04-11-10, 12:39 PM
meh, still better than boostcruising, which is all i care about regarding meets etc
still a 'safe' place to post your car.
yeah there's more ego's and elitist's (oh hey marvis!) but it's not that bad.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Sharpy
04-11-10, 12:43 PM
I only read the first page as I'm at work, but I'll reply with one thing.


The reason I don't update my car thread every day is because (and i'm not just talking about this forum) people have nothing better to do than tell me how I should have modified my car, using X part instead of Y part, or competing in F event instead of B event.

It's my car to do with what I want but a lot of people in the car scene at the moment are too hung up on what other people are doing with their cars that arent being modified in the watcher on's point of view.

Go mod your own fuckin car in your own way, I'll do mine in my way.

eventually I'll see you on the track, street, drag strip, drift circuit, your mums bedroom.

marvis
04-11-10, 12:45 PM
Name dropping HAHA. You know I am a elisist everywhere clutch monkey :) This forum just brings the best out of me.


This is like, a new boostcrusing, but for people who think they are fully JDM.

There does seem to be a few exceptions though.

Alexx
04-11-10, 12:45 PM
hmm. Interesting topic.

Ive been browsing jdmst for quite a while now, and only signed up when the forum was made private a few years back (has since been made public again). Basically I wanted to keep up to date with markos' build thread on his little gunmetal EG from Poland (?).

Back then, I helped out, posted alot more than I do now. I have met alot of genuine people who are now good friends up here in QLD, and everyone knew everyone else on a first name basis at EOMMs. During this time, I have learned alot, mainly from playing with my own car. Personal experiences etc.

Fast forward a few years, and I barely post anymore. I cant keep up with everyone at the EOMMs, they have just grown too large. It seems 80%+ of people who turn up dont even know about the forum, let alone post. Word of Mouth is powerful. Private meets were trialled with great resistance, and have since been returned to being open to anyone. Growth seems endless.

Sure, the small 'cosy' feel of meets is lost. To be honest, each meet is now basically a 2 hour car show. But the older members have smaller meets to keep the feel, organised through personal communication. Did we feel the need to create a private forum with stickers? No. lol. We are just a bunch of dudes who like to hang out and talk shit at each other. Simple.

I feel as if JDMST is a picture forum. The appearance gallery is fantastic. The tech sections are pretty useless, and the offtopic forum is boring. And of course, its a good medium for organising the big meets, which well, are massive these days.

I dunno where im going with this. But i guess the conclusion is 'things are different now'.

I dont really care though, I know who my friends are, I know who to go to when I need help. But I guess thats the forum cycle. Need to start somewhere right?

Trends come and go, quality never goes out of fashion :)


edit: Agreed with Rock re: DAS KAMU. His car was fantastic, well thought out. A shame attitudes on this forum drove him away.

3AM
04-11-10, 12:48 PM
wow, this is like when your girlfriend wants to have the relationship talk...

this discussion isnt going to change much, it might even scare some people away, through realisation of what it has become, and portraying us as a bunch of whingers.

I say forget about it and just keep doing what we do.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/funny_stormtroopers_3.jpg

Mitchee
04-11-10, 12:52 PM
All in all, what I'm saying is nobody has the "RIGHT" idea about some of the styling cues since some of it is mismatched or misconceptions put together then blown up to "fit" and fed to the would be die-hard fan boys to make their interpretation and re-transmit it. So by the time it gets to you, its wasn't 100% correct to begin with ;)

Agreeing on this 100%. People need to try and have an open mind, and bite their lip when someone else styles or tunes their car in their own personal way which you may not like. We're all here with a main general common interest, and people need to not get caught up so much on the small things.

Scarecrow
04-11-10, 12:56 PM
I've read through this thread, some posts multiple times to try and understand the meaning and there is a huge number of valid points and opinions in this thread and I cannot begin to highlight all of them as I would be here for a long time.

A few ideas that have been mentioend in ths thread I think are a great idea:

1. I really like the Idea of having of people wearing Name Tags if they want to meets as Andy Suggested, i would have no problems wearing something with my name on it and my forum user name just so it takes that little edge of approaching a random whom you've never met before.

2. Incorporating Cruising into EOMM's ? Just so that people can go for a drive with other JDMST members and enjoy the company of like-minded individuals.

A few posts by Justin in the last few pages really echoed how I often feel about approaching people at meets -




Spot on deez. I think the stand-off-ish people at JDMST meets might just have bad communication skills and small comfort zones. You've got to be a confident guy/gal to walk up to a complete stranger and say G'day. I don't rock up to any place be it a pub, city, country and expect people to go out of their way to say G'day to me... OK, maybe I expect at least a little bit of service at a restaurant, but hey they're paid to serve me!

I call it innocence. I think some of you guys are making out these more silent groups of kids at JDMST meets to be something they are not (hard kents or whatever). I reckon they are just shy.

This "innocence" as you describe it Justin is what I think is the case with a lot of the younger guys like myself, Not every individual can walk up to someone at a meet and be like hey guys I'm Daniel - how's it going?

Sure I have and will continue to walk up to people and say hello and introduce myself, but sometimes when everyone is having a conversation together, you feel a little bit odd walking up and interrupting or hanging around till you get a chance to say hey ?

In regards to the original post that started this thread


Someone was selling some JDM Subway Rings in the classifieds. I can't be 100% sure but I assume that they were not the real deal (as in original subway rings actually stolen off a Japanese train). That seems fairly obvious because he had a few of them to sell.

Long story short a few people screamed "rip off". What's worse, when I told them to drop it they began letting rip about JDMST being a forum with no integrity. That we're a forum full of people trying to half-ass copy Japanese styling.

ADM pretending to be JDM but failing quite hard style tuning forum was a new forum name suggested by one guy.

In the end of the day there's all types of people in our scene. We're small, but we're also big. There's going to be people who are more passionate about it than others. There's going to be people who love to jump on fads and trends and there's going to be people hating on them for doing so. My job is to somehow get everyone to live under the same roof without fighting and also to get the more educated inspiring the less educated (ie: picture threads, featured rides and prominent member build threads).

I thought it would generate decent discussion on here (it's been a while since we've had a good debate!). I've seen these subway rings getting around, learner stickers and various JDM memorabilia (just as I have seen salt lake drag bikes and cafe racers branded as Deus, hellaflush stickers on cars which have weak offset and JDM shopping lists on the sides of cars with no mods).

Is the 'taking' of elements from various car cultures, without significant knowledge of their deeper meanings, misinterpreting and killing real car culture? Is this forum a breeding ground for fake-enthusiasts who ruin the reputation of the real deal?

Discuss!

I think that taking different parts from various car cultures without understanding or knowledge does have a negative effect on Car Culture as a whole, but I don't think JDMST is responsible for it.

New Elements are started by people who do things differently to the norm, who mix and match different elements to come up with something that they are happy with! People are always going to follow these trends for various reasons.

At the end of the day the reason I enjoy JDMST so much is largely because of the people that I have Met and the people that I continue to meet online, at meets or through other JDMST members - Who all have different takes on JDM Styling but at the end of the day are all enjoy there car for them and do modifications because it makes them enjoy their car more and puts a smile on there face when they see it, drive it or anything to do with it.


I was thinking about this after I read the initial post yesterday and I had an idea - We cannot expect every JDMST member to understand the different elements and the meaning these elements haves to specific car cultures and groups.

But how about this - If someone does want to learn, why not make a new section of the forum whereby people can ask questions about different JDM styles, and maybe have some factual information in regards to how they originated or what they mean ?

Everyone can't be expected to learn about each individual element, but if someone is looking to modify their car in to suit a particular style they like and they also want to find out what it means and where it came from - Why not have it here ?

Kind of like a JDM History or JDM Wiki ? - I wouldn't mind learning about this personally and I'm sure others would too - No doubt some of the members on here would be keen to do some research and would happily contribute - I Certainly would!

I hope this all makes sense - Look forward to the continuing debate and discussion.

Edit:







All in all, what I'm saying is nobody has the "RIGHT" idea about some of the styling cues since some of it is mismatched or misconceptions put together then blown up to "fit" and fed to the would be die-hard fan boys to make their interpretation and re-transmit it. So by the time it gets to you, its wasn't 100% correct to begin with

Agreeing on this 100%. People need to try and have an open mind, and bite their lip when someone else styles or tunes their car in their own personal way which you may not like. We're all here with a main general common interest, and people need to not get caught up so much on the small things.

I think DreadAngel and Mitchee both put this very well, We are all here with a Common interest, some peoples interest's we may not be interested in ourselves, but you still have to appreciate that persons interest as you would expect them to appreciate yours - Even if they do not agree with it.

Sharpy
04-11-10, 12:57 PM
One of the things that annoys me on this forum is it's very hard to have a heated, yet adult discussion about something without getting banned. I know there are exceptions to every case, but when someone gets banned for telling someone to 'stop being a fkn crybaby' and then backing it up with an explanation as to why, they get banned.

It's hard to speak your mind when you're not allowed to speak your mind.

I'm not sure if i've said that properly, others will be able to maybe reword it better than I, as I'm quickly smashing this out in a quiet time at work.

clutch-monkey
04-11-10, 01:01 PM
I only read the first page as I'm at work, but I'll reply with one thing.


The reason I don't update my car thread every day is because (and i'm not just talking about this forum) people have nothing better to do than tell me how I should have modified my car, using X part instead of Y part, or competing in F event instead of B event.

It's my car to do with what I want but a lot of people in the car scene at the moment are too hung up on what other people are doing with their cars that arent being modified in the watcher on's point of view.

Go mod your own fuckin car in your own way, I'll do mine in my way.

eventually I'll see you on the track, street, drag strip, drift circuit, your mums bedroom.
you should do circuit sprints with me at lakeside

just saying :P

Name dropping HAHA. You know I am a elisist everywhere clutch monkey :)

LOL that is true

Nismodified
04-11-10, 01:01 PM
The last time we had name tags are EOMM's (that i remember) was October 2007, at silverwater bridge carpark (that was a cool meet) and things seemed jollier back in those days

[[d a n n y]]
04-11-10, 01:02 PM
tbh i really dont go to JDMST EOMM's no more..
i dont know anyone other than my old school mates that i still see everyknow and then..
the meets have gone way to big and very anti social some times.
i dunno maybe it's just me but few people there look real shady and seem to be eyeing on alot of cars.
back when jdmst first started up it used to be a great forum.
i used to organise the monthly carwash meets and met a few great members that are still active.
now days the forum is just full on nonsense..
it seems theres more spam in technical sections then actualy technical information..

with the subway rings and fake stuff i dont really care
i run genuine shit on my car and thats it..and im happy with it
im sure the guy who runs fake shit is happy with his car too
so i say who cares let it be. get on with your life

DreadAngel
04-11-10, 01:03 PM
^^^

Amen lolz =P

The Panda
04-11-10, 01:03 PM
I like the fact you've opened this discussion.

But what is possibly wrong with this forum in the opinions of some is something that can't be fixed. It's a change in the scene as a whole. Put up with it, adapt or leave it are the options.

Alot of people have made an effort not to be douches as of late, myself included, and i don't particularly think it is wasted effort. Creating communities is not about 'putting up with it', it is about instilling a set of values in a large number of people and allowing them to interact responsibly.


100% spot on! Removing Manufacturers section entirely is on the list for discussion. Why would a Honda owner need to hang out in the Honda room on JDMST when there's OzHonda? It's beyond me.

I really dont agree with this. Although i see more technical posts on these other forums, i dont know why you would wipe the technical slate clean on this forum? Would it not make sense to try and foster more discussion? For instance, the wheel alignment thread has been truly eye opening with genuine discussion and informative posts from a number of members.

It also gives a bit of direction to people who are willing to answer questions. If they dont know anything about Hondas, then they wont post in there. Simple.


All in all, i don't so much see the elitist stuff as the cause of the problem, but more of a symptom. I think the cause of the problem is that people have become a lot more 'touchy' about everything that people say. No longer can you poke fun without upsetting people. Everyone, in my opinion, just needs to calm down and let the good times roll.

deez
04-11-10, 01:08 PM
The last time we had name tags are EOMM's (that i remember) was October 2007, at silverwater bridge carpark (that was a cool meet) and things seemed jollier back in those days

There was a couple of other times too IIRC.....at JDMYard and Rhodes.

lil_foy
04-11-10, 01:09 PM
I had just spent the last 30mins typing a huge reply, but to be 100% honest it would probably fall of deaf ears.

People who are whinging about the "jdm" aspect need to wake up, if you posted something track oriented or "jdm" on a sex spec forum do you think you're going to get praise from everyone? No. Simply because that isn't the mainstream of the site.

In regards to all the "elitists", refer to above. It happens everywhere, take the good with the bad and enjoy the rest.

Just be glad there is a forum that largely supports most of our hobbies and interests. (photography, drifting, circuit racing, drag racing, etc).
Because i'm yet to find a website that actively promotes and shares the current scene as much as jdmst does.

Low Style
04-11-10, 01:16 PM
IMO:

It's your car if someone tells you that you aren't allowed to do something you want to your care tell them to shove it.

Yes there are people that dont know the meaning of this and that but no one has the right to speak shit towards someone they don't know about someone elses pride and joy. the people that do themself are the cause of the car scence becoming shit.

just a FYI to all those riding the JDM cock.

WE ARE FROM AUS and we are NOT from Japan (bar some who are legit)

and yeah JDM = Jap domestic market - to me all aftermarket parts do not fall under "domestic market".... but hey thats me.


Haters will hate only cause they have pathetic lives.

Build your car for YOURSELF and fuck what anyone else things.

of and for bandwagon people fucking lol at you! "you are riding a bandwagon" well aren't you riding one for liking the clothes you wear the items you by and the car you drive?

people need to pull their heads out of their own arse and appreciate people and their cars for what they are.

RE99IE
04-11-10, 01:35 PM
In my opinion, nothing is really wrong about JDMST as a community. It is a community of different groups of enthusiast that have different input on the meaning of what JDM Style suppose to be. From concourse to sexspec and from to Hardparkers to trackbashers. My other take in JDMST is like going through school, I came in as a noob and through the diverse threads I learned a few things or two, created some acquaintance and built a small group of friends.

Most of this misuse of items to copy a style I believe is more due to our new generation called "Look at me" Generation. Many impulsively bought items, installed parts or even shared their car upgrade plans to achieve only one purpose - "Look at me". How often do we find out the hard way when we install an exhaust system only to be disappointed as it is too drowning, too loud, too quite, too low, etc because we saw a photo or read about how cool they are. It is in our nature to get attention, only problem is that many of us don't like the wrong attention - ie criticism. If you don't like the heat - get out of the kitchen.

My last 2c - a good outcome of a community is when one finds a lasting friendship with people within that community and continues on outside that community. JDMST is achieving this with flying colours.

anth
04-11-10, 01:38 PM
I had just spent the last 30mins typing a huge reply, but to be 100% honest it would probably fall of deaf ears.

It's a shame to see people posting responses like this, because I think a lot of us would have had similar concerns, but still took the plunge and spilled our thoughts out in the thread. Sometimes it's hard to give out your honest opinion to a large audience of people and most likely be judged on it, but if there's a time and a place to let it out, it's now. :)

bionikal
04-11-10, 01:42 PM
Edit: Bionikal, bit hypocritical to write that first paragraph then write the followin paragraphs wanking on about how shit the forum and it's community is....why even login? Why even read? Why even respond??

I drop back in every now and then to see whats changed. I don't consider myself an 'active' member.
Just because I don't like it now doesn't mean I can't have a vested interest in what it becomes.

Basically, I don't like it at the moment, The Incredible Mr Fox has said its a bit on the shit side at the moment and asked for input. Now is my chance to say what I think the issues are in an attempt to get my concerns heard and some changes made.

Forgive me if im wrong, but im pretty sure that was the whole purpse of the thread?

JDM 20T
04-11-10, 01:48 PM
The last time we had name tags are EOMM's (that i remember) was October 2007, at silverwater bridge carpark (that was a cool meet) and things seemed jollier back in those days

ahhh yes my last minute organised meet was a good turnout. Alot of people but yet people all still mingled and socialised. The only time we singled someone out that night was when the bogan came with his commo to do donuts because they saw us lol

marvis
04-11-10, 01:51 PM
I just spent 20 hours typing a reply. But when I finished I decided not to post it.

Sharpy
04-11-10, 01:55 PM
I just spent 20 hours typing a reply. But when I finished I decided not to post it.

Noone would have cared anyway. There is only so many times people can read "ugh somebody posted pics of my plates, that venue isn't good enough, your car isn't modified to my standards"

Especially 20 hrs worth

Scarecrow
04-11-10, 02:03 PM
It's a shame to see people posting responses like this, because I think a lot of us would have had similar concerns, but still took the plunge and spilled our thoughts out in the thread. Sometimes it's hard to give out your honest opinion to a large audience of people and most likely be judged on it, but if there's a time and a place to let it out, it's now. :)

I agree with this point - Regardless if it's going to fall on deaf ears or not, if you still feel strongly about something you should still express your opinion, I had similar concerns when posting but at least when it's all said and done, I had my say - and others have too.

PA70NG
04-11-10, 02:24 PM
Lol.....seriously guys....its a forum :/

somos
04-11-10, 02:30 PM
Next EOMM, I am gonna wear this:

http://imabean.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/hi-my-name-is.jpg

And do this to other members/strangers (and hopefully they'll do the same in return):

http://www.gforceseattle.com/images/sayhi.png

Lay off the egos, stereotyping, attitude (no one's here to win a popularity contest) ...

http://www.thedatingrulebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/smile.jpg

Relax. Rinse. Repeat. You'd be amazed at the positive changes these simple offline things will bring to JDMST when we meet online later.

Agree with that... you inspire me to bring back the Tim Tams... Oreos don't have the same level of love.

wal32r
04-11-10, 02:35 PM
I havent been here long, but its my favourite forum. Whenever ive needed advice i get it, whenever ive asked a dumb ass question its usually answered, and many hours of entertainment have been had browsing other random things (for example Pandas "Best JDMST Threads").
I think expansion and growth for any car community is good in the long run, many may like things "they way they were" before, which i do not know about, but car modifying sprouts new trends all the time. Some mods may be gone about cheaply but it is usually for a reason i suppose. I myself am not a rich man, i work on my own car and get things done as well as my finances allow me.

I like this forum, and the people i have dealt with through it.

Im no expert on anything really but thats my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Andy Wana
04-11-10, 02:39 PM
Agree with that... you inspire me to bring back the Tim Tams... Oreos don't have the same level of love.

Tim Tams = ADM (owned by USDM)
Oreos = USDM

We should try Pocky next time, Benson
Pocky = JDM

http://www.worldonaplate.org/photos/uncategorized/pocky.jpg