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justinspiderholden
21-10-11, 01:00 PM
In the wake of the Dan Wheldon crash over the weekend

There is going to be alot of knee jerking and rash comments made about motorsport and safety there are already calls for Indy Cars to stop racing on Ovals.

I think that Open Wheelers should remain opener wheels and Indy cars should remain racing on Ovals

Yes its sad someone has died but Dan knew the risks involved in the job he signed up for.

I don't think we should sterilze motor racing for the sake of safety

What are your thoughts

daevilone
21-10-11, 01:15 PM
Not quite sure what you mean by open wheelers vs indy cars...


But in general safety in motorsport is a big issue.

I don't think too much will come from this incident.

However in the case say of group b rally cars, it it's very sad that the regs changed to ban them but at the same time it made rallying a lot safer. Imo it's not exactly good racing when someone dies, it's not something that is needed.

Personally, bring on safety. Even though it probably makes it more expensive for me to compete, I like that everything is being done too make our safer for me.

The much bigger people in modern motorsport is the lack of variety in many top racing categories but that's a different argument.


A little disjointed but I'm on a phone heh.

The Panda
21-10-11, 01:19 PM
This is always the case, and I have long said it is because people place to high a value on the life of an individual and don't see the big picture.

Unfortunately, motor racing has been 'sterile' for a long time and is in desperate need of renewal - F1, rally, indycars etc - have all been strangled under safety regulations. The reality is here that a young person has died doing something which is frowned upon by the most conservative demographics. Their composite power increases the impact by an order of magnitude, over say, the thousands of people who die every day in the Somalian famine.

I suppose I find the fact that this even rates a mention on front page news a little bit disheartening, in the same way that I was shocked to see Job's obituary topping human rights violations in Burma and Tibet, Al-Shabaab activities in famine stricken Africa, and the Eurozone crises. Even more so when Dennis Ritchie died and all the fanboys not even knowing who he was.


Yes its sad someone has died but Dan knew the risks involved in the bob he signed up for.

Voluntary assumption of risk is going to be bandied about a lot in any settlement activities in that motorsport but I don't think it really has a place here. Knowledge of risk can never be a justification for the actualisation of that risk. Having said that, I don't see any foul play, and given the immense QA activities in motorsport, people should not be quick to point the finger without actually knowing what is going on.

Just remember that the first people to call for the stop of a sport because of death/injury/whatever, are generally the people who least understand the sport itself.

justinspiderholden
21-10-11, 01:27 PM
Not quite sure what you mean by open wheelers vs indy cars...

Was just trying to make the point that IMO Open Wheelers need to stay open wheelers and that Indy Cars need to remain racing on Ovals

*bj*
21-10-11, 01:31 PM
Everyone should watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9-QrRl1Uk&list=FLiRDd34AKXRhOAYfXkM-aSg&index=14

Short doco on the 'Killer Years' of F1, where there were several driver and spectator deaths every season, and it was expected. IMO no amount of entertainment should be taken from death, or a sport that doesn't do enough to prevent it.

Be warned there are some pretty shocking images.

clutch-monkey
21-10-11, 01:50 PM
there are only three sports; motor racing, mountaineering, and bullfighting. the rest are merely games.

don't turn motor racing into a game, please

aydin
21-10-11, 02:00 PM
^well said monkey

Bodgy Racing Developments
21-10-11, 02:15 PM
to start off, horrible to hear him passing away.

back on topic though, we are living in a day where so many safety devices are put in place to prevent death and/or injury. Look at a typical car built in the naughties,

- ABS
- SRS
- Traction Control
- Variety of pre-emptive measures to avoid collions
- seat belts

the list is endless, yet there is still a big number of people dying in car accidents every day. A similar thing goes to motorsport. Have a look at some of the accidents over the past few years in F1, Webber going airborne in 2010 is the first one that springs to mind. Yet the guy walks away with a headache.

Its not that there is a lack of safety measures in sport and all facets of daily life, the reality is though that there will always be a level of danger in pretty much all parts of life and there is only one of two options, grieve and move on or put a stop to all things that have a level of danger, regardless of how small the danger is.

There is more chance of me killing myself on my way home from work today then a racecar driver dying in F1 or the like in this day and age.

daevilone
21-10-11, 03:44 PM
Unfortunately, motor racing has been 'sterile' for a long time and is in desperate need of renewal - F1, rally, indycars etc - have all been strangled under safety regulations.

there hasn't been much strangulation from safety... the main problems with modern motorsport is the amount of money that is thrown at the cars. Technology is killing the events as those with all the money are usually far, far better off than those that don't.




Was just trying to make the point that IMO Open Wheelers need to stay open wheelers and that Indy Cars need to remain racing on Ovals

*Shrug* I'd be calling an Indy car an open-wheeler... but oh well.


I don't think that there has to be any changes due to this incident and that yes, shit happens, it is a dangerous sport. However if say they discovered that if he had had a better roll cage or some other such protection mechanism then why the hell not make that change mandatory? If it is a case of "if the cars had half the power he wouldn't have died in that case"... that is of course a different matter lol.

Course_Out
21-10-11, 04:39 PM
It is an argument likely as old as teh car itself.

In my opinion there is always goign to be an element of danger in motor racing and that is part of it's appeal, the balancing act of being the fastest vs. keeping the thing rubber side down. The challenge that this poses is what motorsport is all about, the only thing seperating motorsport from other pursuits is that the consequences of getting it wrong are much more severe.

I feel that all steps shoudl be taken to ensure the safety of drivers, marshalls and spectators - life is precious and should not be wasted. Helmets, rollcages, catch fencing, etc etc should all be employed as far as possible to prevetn people from dying HOWEVER things that remove the challenge and competitive edge from the sport should be approached with a great deal of caution. 30 people driving around in circles at 60kph wrapped in bubblewrap is not a sport.

In this particular case it seems that the traffic density and its affect on the aerodynamics of the cars involved played a part. I would count "too many cars on the track" as a reasonably foreseeable issue and one that could have easily been avoided. Having a few less cars on the track would not have diminished the competition in my opinion, and is a step that should have been taken.

87seca
21-10-11, 04:51 PM
Mark Webber's Take (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/15376777.stm)

Have a read, it talks about the risks, and the safety, or lack there of in Indy Cars on ovals.

Boz
24-10-11, 08:40 PM
Everyone should watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9-QrRl1Uk&list=FLiRDd34AKXRhOAYfXkM-aSg&index=14

Short doco on the 'Killer Years' of F1, where there were several driver and spectator deaths every season, and it was expected. IMO no amount of entertainment should be taken from death, or a sport that doesn't do enough to prevent it.

Be warned there are some pretty shocking images.

Thanks for that link bj, couldnt take my eyes away for the entire time.
There was so much truth in there from drivers, no sugar coating at all. I have so much more respect for Jackie Stewart now

Biggie
24-10-11, 09:02 PM
when you move at 200km/h there are risks involved.

Noone goes out there to die.

any preventable accident should not be allowed

but the end of the day you could slip over tomorrow and die in the shower

accidents are exactly that accidents - and short of not racing at all there would of been nothing that anyone could of done.

RIP a sad loss

TyD
24-10-11, 09:07 PM
There will always be someone in the office saying yes, we need more of this, less of this to make shit safer.

One thing that stands out for me coming from a dirt bike background is neck braces - When I started riding there was no such thing, now it's weird if you don't have one.

Also, speedway karts, a couple of years ago you could wear converse all star high tops, now you need to wear proper go kart boots, and you need to run 30mm washers around the seat mounts so in an accident it will reduce/won't puncher the seat and hurt you. Those 2 things I pointed out were both enforced after a bad crash.

What's next? Roll cages around the whole go kart for if/when they flip?

bluesprinter
25-10-11, 12:43 PM
Nothing wrong with adding more safety rules or features, even if it may or may not make the sport a little more less interesting..there is only so much that can be prevented, everything is just bad luck of an accident as mentioned, and bad luck it was. R.I.P

13BWAT
25-10-11, 01:31 PM
when you move at 200km/h there are risks involved.

Noone goes out there to die.

any preventable accident should not be allowed

but the end of the day you could slip over tomorrow and die in the shower

accidents are exactly that accidents - and short of not racing at all there would of been nothing that anyone could of done.

RIP a sad loss

Very true.... in pretty much everything in life accidents can happen...

SKY350
25-10-11, 01:43 PM
A bit in two minds about it all. Motorsport can be kept and made more intersting without sacrificing or even when increasing saftey. The indy car issue was track related AFAIK, not car/driver related. The track was unsafe for the cars.
Re keeping it interesting, this all comes down to how competive the field is in comparison to one another.
If you had 50 cars, all with every saftey feature under the sun, all running around within 30secs of one another, you would have an interesting spectacle. It all comes down to that dirty word "parity" :) GT1 in my mind is a good example. You get different cars, with different engines, with different strengths all battling it out. Championships are decided in the last round or so and these things are as safe as they come.

Open Wheelers will always be "less" safe than a fully enclosed cockpit. Motorcycle racing will always be "less" safe from a driver/rider protection perspective than a car.

Personally i don't think seeing crashes in racing makes it more intersting, and I'm all for as much driver/rider saftey as possible. As said i honestly don't believe that saftey related changes sterilise the sport.

just my 2c

Nur33
25-10-11, 04:58 PM
In the wake of the Dan Wheldon crash over the weekend

There is going to be alot of knee jerking and rash comments made about motorsport and safety there are already calls for Indy Cars to stop racing on Ovals.

I think that Open Wheelers should remain opener wheels and Indy cars should remain racing on Ovals

Yes its sad someone has died but Dan knew the risks involved in the job he signed up for.

I don't think we should sterilze motor racing for the sake of safety

What are your thoughts

I agree it has been a sad few weeks for motorsport may Dan and Marco R.I.P.

Not trying to be a dick about it but these guys no exactly what the risks are when the signed there contracts and both of them have probably been in motorsport since they were yay high. It was just freak accident in both cases, could they have been prevented? Maybe but changing all the rules again is a load of shit. Shit happens people weather you like it or not, if they change the rules and a year later and someone else dies WTF gonna happen then... outlaw all motorsport. This shit has happen before back in the 80's in the Mega Horsepower era F1, Rally etc. It's a high risk job that's all there is about it!!!!!!

Course_Out
25-10-11, 08:20 PM
One thing that stands out for me coming from a dirt bike background is neck braces - When I started riding there was no such thing, now it's weird if you don't have one.

The neck brace has made its way into bmx and, to a greater extent, mountain biking. Just like motor racing speeds are increasing and courses are becoming harder and faster as riders progress. Ten years ago you would've laughed at a bmxer wearing a neck brace, but with the tracks now, well...

The same is true opf motorsport. The cars will always get faster, that is the whole point. I think roll cages on go karts aren't a bad idea - not just for roll overs, but also from kart to kart contact.

I think the balance between the risk and the enjoyment needs to be managed - instead of making (in this example) the karts slower and imposing heavier penalties for contact improve the protection for the driver. The racing stays the same but less people get hurt. Sounds like a good option to me?

Pr0ph3cy
26-10-11, 04:24 PM
That doco that BJ posted is very touching, and very sobering. I dont really have a lot to say on the subject, and what i'd say is probably wrong anyway, since I dont go into the safety aspect of motorsport a lot, so i'll just keep my mouth shut so i dont embarrass myself.