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Thread: Wheel Alignment: Specs and Theories

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AYCMACHINE View Post
    Interesting. Sounds like an extremely understeery setup.
    id say extremely oversteery setup...terrible rear tyre contact due to excessive camber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3AM View Post
    id say extremely oversteery setup...terrible rear tyre contact due to excessive camber.
    I'd disagree.

    Once you get the suspension loaded up, the car is going to get a bit of body roll pushing the outside edge of the tire down onto the road.

    Right? Pretty sure thats how it works.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Brocaine View Post
    I'd disagree.

    Once you get the suspension loaded up, the car is going to get a bit of body roll pushing the outside edge of the tire down onto the road.

    Right? Pretty sure thats how it works.....
    I run -0.5 to -1 deg rear camber and I get dead even tyre wear... -2.5 chews out the inside real quick.
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    Stiff car on slippery tires = less body roll and reduced need for camber
  5. #45
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    I'd say that would have a lot to do with the driving. If a car is constantly cornering hard then the tyre wear would be even on -2.5.
  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonba View Post
    Really? What makes you say that?
    Disclaimer: This following comment, is based purely on MY own learning, and from what I have played with and experienced.
    This thread is good btw, I dig.
    Obviously i'm new to AWD cars and all. but the concept of camber is the same. I personally wouldn't run more than say 1.5-1.8 -ve on the rear. The front seems sweet as, but from what i've played with too much grip on the rear leads to a crap load of understeer on corner entry and mid corner. After speaking to people that have been racing for many many years and getting times of 1.06's in AWD cars that hasn't much power or work done to it have all said the same thing. Especially with Evo's and STi's, they understeer alot out the factory, you want to use a stiffer rear sway or stiffer rear springs and reduce the camber on the rear. I'd also run at least 2mm toe out on the rear to make the rear run. When I had the DC2R (know it's different to the Evo, even though AWD is glorifed FWD) I got intrigued by wheel alignments when I all of a sudden understood the concepts of grip through a corner. It's amazing how much time the 'right' alignment for your OWN driving style chops down lap times. I shared my alignment with some that became slower and hated it cos they couldn't drive straight on the main straight or would spin every corner. Some loved it and became faster. So end of the day, it does all come down to personal preference.
    But I suppose you've had your evo for ages, and you know more than me. Just wondering, who has set up your car? Or are you alignment settings speced by yourself? Also, curious as to why you chose those alignment settings? This has got my mind all working and shit. Alignment is all about sacrifices (ie: my agressive cornering alignment made me lose 8km/h down the main straight at wakefield), so just wondering what are the strong points about your alignment.
  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AYCMACHINE View Post
    Disclaimer: This following comment, is based purely on MY own learning, and from what I have played with and experienced.
    This thread is good btw, I dig.
    Obviously i'm new to AWD cars and all. but the concept of camber is the same. I personally wouldn't run more than say 1.5-1.8 -ve on the rear. The front seems sweet as, but from what i've played with too much grip on the rear leads to a crap load of understeer on corner entry and mid corner. After speaking to people that have been racing for many many years and getting times of 1.06's in AWD cars that hasn't much power or work done to it have all said the same thing. Especially with Evo's and STi's, they understeer alot out the factory, you want to use a stiffer rear sway or stiffer rear springs and reduce the camber on the rear. I'd also run at least 2mm toe out on the rear to make the rear run. When I had the DC2R (know it's different to the Evo, even though AWD is glorifed FWD) I got intrigued by wheel alignments when I all of a sudden understood the concepts of grip through a corner. It's amazing how much time the 'right' alignment for your OWN driving style chops down lap times. I shared my alignment with some that became slower and hated it cos they couldn't drive straight on the main straight or would spin every corner. Some loved it and became faster. So end of the day, it does all come down to personal preference.
    But I suppose you've had your evo for ages, and you know more than me. Just wondering, who has set up your car? Or are you alignment settings speced by yourself? Also, curious as to why you chose those alignment settings? This has got my mind all working and shit. Alignment is all about sacrifices (ie: my agressive cornering alignment made me lose 8km/h down the main straight at wakefield), so just wondering what are the strong points about your alignment.
    Just gonna throw it out there...

    Any car with power going through the rear wheels, be it 4WD or RWD, will work better with either neutral rear toe, or slight toe in. If you run toe out on a driven wheel, as the outside wheel is the one with all the weight carried on it, it's going to get better traction than the inside wheel. That wheel will be fighting against the inside rear and will try to pull the back end of the car out of line. On a FWD car, this might be suitable to try and get some turn in, but i've never really driven or owned FWD cars, so I'm not sure.

    As mentioned before, rear toe in will give you more rear stability under power. You might not need it depending on what you drive, but it's worth a try. I wouldnt say that it will induce understeer 100%, but I'm sure it has some kind of effect.

    I think understeer is something that seems to be quite often misunderstood. The cars that I have loved driving most have normally had a small and very controllable amount of understeer to their handling when you really start to push them. Theres no such thing as a car that is entirely neutral in my opinion, and I think that 9 times out of 10, a car with slight understeer is going to be much faster than a car with slight oversteer.
  8. #48
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    ^^ You just confused the crap outta me.

    So are you saying Tow out rear on a AWD/RWD car will have the effects of Oversteer - if so cool, this makes sense in my brain and it's what Heasmans and a few other AWD gurus have told me aswell. You said toe in at the rear stabilises the car, so I guess that is what you meant. If not, i'm lost.

    I'd love to explain the shit that is going through my head right now regarding alignment, but it's impossible.
  9. #49
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    ive had quite a few scotcheseses(?) so this might not make sense but ....
    im sorry but in my opinion, setting a car up so it toes out, and promotes oversteer whether its static toe or dynamic. is just reinforcing a bad driving habit. (same with tilting rear subframes backwards for "drift" setting)i'll admit im not the fastest round wakefield and killing my ackerman has fucked my lap times severely, but setting up the alignment to promote oversteer, just seems redundant. in rwd platform (and what limited awd, i have driven ) oversteer is so easily achievable, imo its better to set up the car for as much grip as possible, and whether its drift or circuit, in rwd and awd setups toe in promotes grip. and we should leave it at that.

  10. #50
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    Valid point made above re driving style etc, although all i've heard from alignment shops and performance garages is the toe out rear for oversteer and this is what they use on their race cars.
    I guess this is something that has made me hella curious now, and next outing to wakefield i'll have to give it a go. Regarding grip, awd's have too much grip with stock power - LOL, it was understeer heaven with 2mm out on the rear. Maybe i'm just going in too hard? Either way, i'm new to this AWD stuff and i'm digging this thread.

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