Wheel Alignment: Specs and Theories

[Cazal 856]

why is tis going to exactly's now what are you trying to prove you started a thread looking for help and now you want to start debaiting theories with some one who you know nothing about?

No, I started a thread looking to create discussion.

I'm asking straight forward questions about these theories. Where is the problem?

[Cazal 856]

So based on exactly what you said, you believe that a car with 40hp, running 1 degree toe out, will be as fast as a car with 20hp, neutral toe. Right?

hahaha last time you started asking questions like this i remember where it went,

look mate this is th theory i have been told, the people that told me about this have been hired to fix the suspension issues in car's like ian pretty's gt40 chris standfords gt rs a mozler 24 hour car and a few of the world rally teams, so look take it as you will but this is exactly what they have told me it is not a i have said it is a what i have been told by by people that do it for a living.

My point is that you can't give it a blanket rule of 20hp per degree of toe. It doesn't work. While I'm sure that the increased drag of running toe out has the potential to affect both your straight-line speed and acceleration, and that could be countered by an increase in horsepower, it's not just a figure of 15-20hp in every single case. Like I said before, it's going to be a sliding scale dependant on a lot more than just how much toe out you run.

[Biggie]

Front
Camber: -4.5 degrees
Toe : 4mm out total
Caster : 8 degrees

Rear
Camber: -3
Toe: 0mm toe

yeah its currently fked.

[RE99IE]

So based on exactly what you said, you believe that a car with 40hp, running 1 degree toe out, will be as fast as a car with 20hp, neutral toe. Right?

just looking in the point of view of DRAG, anything other than neutral will generate drag that will diminish straight line speed. But at the end of the day, racing are won in corners.

[Cazal 856]

yep the more toe you pull the more drag you have so 2 deg would be double of 1, i did also say it was between 15-20 hp so that could be your varient that you are looking for i am not pinning it exactly on 1 figure as you are trying to.

i am sure there is varients in there i am only stating what i have been told

It amazes me how you can raise such a good initial point and then throw it all out the window.

I never actually disagreed with you, all I did was point out that the calculation of losses is far more complex and wide ranging than 15-20hp.

[-EGA.2.90-]

This sort of reminds of the Dyno drivetrain loss debate.. I can see where rock is coming from, my Rex with ~200kw@fly would make around ~150kw@w (say 25% loss) which seems to be general of thumb for dyno talk.. So
Does that mean I need 1000hp@fly to make 750hp@w .. I think that's what rock is getting at.. Youre friend worked on race/rally cars, high amounts of engineering/power etc etc so the 'losses' would be more apparent noticeable on a larger power scale then on say you average road car, it all reacts in relativity

[Cazal 856]

This sort of reminds of the Dyno drivetrain loss debate.. I can see where rock is coming from, my Rex with ~200kw@fly would make around ~150kw@w (say 25% loss) which seems to be general of thumb for dyno talk.. So
Does that mean I need 1000hp@fly to make 750hp@w .. I think that's what rock is getting at.. Youre friend worked on race/rally cars, high amounts of engineering/power etc etc so the 'losses' would be more apparent noticeable on a larger power scale then on say you average road car, it all reacts in relativity

Exactly. Like I said, a sliding scale.

[VTECMACHINE]

Oi Rock Brocaine. YM. That is all...

Oh also, nice screamer pipe.

[J]

Oi Rock Brocaine. YM. That is all...

Oh also, nice screamer pipe.

Screamer?

[1I1]

Plus tyres are going to play a big part in how much the toe effects straight line speed..

For example a GTR running 265 semis vs my Corolla running 205 RE001 street tyres

[Cazal 856]

Anyone know much about R32 front upper arms?

My question is that although you can buy adjustable length arms, I feel more comfortable buying fixed length ones. Cusco do them in the same length as factory, as well as +5mm, -5mm and -10mm. Does anyone have any experience as to what lengths give what sort of camber measurements? I don't want to end up with too much or too little camber.

[zappy65]

In my opinion, run as much caster as you physically can. I have spoken to a few knowledgable people, and the general idea is to stop adding caster when the steering gets too heavy, or you run out of room.

I had a good chat to Josh Cootes down at WTAC and he disagreed with this method. His Castor on his 180 is set to almost neutral because of the change that occurs when the wheel are at full lock and related it with ackermans angle. Im no drifter but what he told me made sense.

180SX

Front:

Castor: Set to +6 on both sides due to 245/40 hitting type X lip on certain inclines with full lock
Camber: - 3 both sides
Toe: 2mm toe out either side (4mm total)

Rear:

Castor: Stock at static ride, about 1mm on both sides at compression
Camber: -1 on both sides
Toe: 2mm toe in on both sides

Im changing this setup within the next few days due to S14 hub conversion.

[Tonba]

Just changed the wheel alignment on the evo. In addition, we pulled off the tein monoflex camber/castor tops and custom fabricated up some new ones.. Feels fantastic now!!!

Front
Castor: 5.5 (got heaps more room to move!)
Camber: -4.1*
Toe: 3.2mm Out

Rear
Camber: -2.2*
Toe: 1.6mm In

[Cazal 856]

Just changed the wheel alignment on the evo. In addition, we pulled off the tein monoflex camber/castor tops and custom fabricated up some new ones.. Feels fantastic now!!!

Front
Castor: 5.5 (got heaps more room to move!)
Camber: -4.1*
Toe: 3.2mm Out

Rear
Camber: -2.2*
Toe: 1.6mm In

I dont know if you've already mentioned it, but why did you decide to replace the Tein strut tops?

Any info on what improvements/changes were made with the custom ones?

[Tonba]

Got rid of them as I had totally maxed out the tein tops at -3.5* of camber and about 4 castor. I can get heaps more now..